Transcendental Satanism

[Sireal]

Hi Sireal,
first of all, I accept your standpoint, but it makes no sense for me. You said: "Or, they have all the answers they think they need and know better than anyone what magic is all about". .

Ahh, yes.That is in the context of former Initiates of the Temple, this was the thread I addressed in Adrameleks post-what LHP Initiates in the Temple do with their Work is none of my concern-first and foremost because I'm way too damn busy with my own Work and dont have nor do I want the time to police others behavior or judge their Work, that is for them to do. Every one on this path gets to be their own judge -a far worse/better...lets say appropriate - fate than having some wanker who knows next to nothing about the workings of ones own psyche do so.

But if there are people who don't believe that they have all answers or know better than anyone, then you tell them that "what others do with their Initiation outside the Temple is of little concern to me".

Again I am speaking of former Temple Initiates, not the world outside of that construct. That is a different landscape altogether and I feel I navigate it quite well. As for former Temple members, I know what they (potentially) know and expect a certain integrity in their communications, berating, gossiping, fear mongering and slander will get these folks nothing but disdain from me. It's pure bul*s**t and does nothing at all for my Work so I have no time for it. So what if someone p**ses you off-good! friction makes for progress, meaning you have something to learn and potentially Xeper from.But to take it personally speaks to fundamental personal work that still needs doing,not getting choked at the Temple because things didn't go your way. I know several ex-Setians and have excellent magical relations with them, so I think its a few with loud voices that attempt to damage our school. Actually I feel that way about any magical construct-if you chose to be there you should read the fine print-if you do not-too bad for you. but dont b**ch to me about what didn't blow your skirt up. The Work is Yours to do not someone elses.

For me this is not suitably. Set was ever the God of crossing border, not the god of "first you must become a member of my church and pay before I talk to you" Don't misunderstand me, I understand and respect that you would discuss initatory experiences only in the ToS, but all the other Setian relevantly topics? It's your decision but I think it could be good for the Xeper of the Temple of Set if the people talk to people who stands outside. Also it could be helpfully for people who are not member to understand the philosophy and religion of Set. And understanding is one part of Xeper as I see it. But, maybe it isn't important to you, why are you here? Only for recruiting ?

I don't need to recruit for the Temple, lol. If you are Setian you will find it just fine without my help. I am here to teach/learn, and to keep it Real. So you could say Sin that my presence here speaks far louder than my words ever could.

Thus, I'm here to learn about everything..... if you say "Or, they have all the answers they think they need and know better than anyone what magic is all about", then there will be no reason why youl shouldn't discuss here Setian relevantly topics Together we can learn.

I wish you the best...

and together we shall learn what may be learned by exchanging idea's in an environment where personal Magical integrity has a value beyond that of the profane world of abdication of responsibility to their Self-they deserve their fate many times over. I know how much I do not know and am as good a student as I can be a teacher. Good questions, my thanks for giving me the opportunity to clarify those points.

Become Vast!

 

[sinistercurrent]

Good Morning

Ahh, yes.That is in the context of former Initiates of the Temple, this was the thread I addressed in Adrameleks post-what LHP Initiates in the Temple do with their Work is none of my concern-first and foremost because I'm way too damn busy with my own Work and dont have nor do I want the time to police others behavior or judge their Work, that is for them to do.

Oh, ok! Thank you for make clear up this point! I misunderstood your point completely.

So you could say Sin that my presence here speaks far louder than my words ever could.

 

[Atreyu]

Sanctus Infernus!

I am Adramelek and am new to this forum. I have been a practicing Sorcerer/Satanist for about 20 years now. I have been a member of quite a few LHP groups over the years, namely, the Temple of Set and the Church of Lucifer. The later seemed to cult like for me, however, the ToS showed a lot of potential though there seemed to be a lot petty infighting between some of it's most promenant members, and I myself was blasted for vocalizing my concerns as to the direction this group was going down and I received a lot of flack and hateful responces to my critizisim. It is a Magicians right to complain, after all I was paying $85.00 annually to renew my membership. That's a pretty good chunk of change without knowing where and to whom this money to was to.

In my experience, a lot of leaders of so called LHP groups use there fees, ranging from $200.00, $100.00, to $85.00 for personal income, this isn't right, and until I am proven wrong I have no part of any organized LHP group at this time. In some orgs you send them $200.00 and all you get back is a certificate of membership and a membership card and that's it?:sarcastic

As a life long follower of the Left-Hand Path, for me there is no other way. I am a follower of what I term Transcendental Satanism which embraces the Magical philosophies of Theistic Satanism, Setianism, and to some degree LaVeyian Satanism, as well as many other aspects of the Dark Arts. I and another Magical coleague are also in the process of formulating some ideas to form a group sometime in the future which will be an Initiatory instituion that will embrace all aspects of the Black Arts. This may take some time, a couple of years, but we are determined to bring an alternative to those who truly seek to embrace and explore their inner Magical Selves and the LHP.

In closing, dont get me wrong, I have the uttmost respect for the ToS and the CoS, they have made great strides in bringing Luciferian understanding to the LHP. I and others just feel there needs to be an alternative for those who in there Dark Hearts seek the Mysteries in the Black Arts.

Adramelek

I beleive Levayian Satanism and theistic Satanism are a strong contradiction. Am I wrong?

 

[GiantHouseKey]

I beleive Levayian Satanism and theistic Satanism are a strong contradiction. Am I wrong?

The fact that LaVeyan satanism is based on atheism and that theistic satanism is based on the idea of deities, then yes that is a huge contradiction to follow both paths.

But ideas from both can be merged. The philosophies are not necessarily contradictory, and even the theology can be changed. After all, there are many different forms of theistic satanism.

GhK.

 

[blackout]

The fact that LaVeyan satanism is based on atheism and that theistic satanism is based on the idea of deities, then yes that is a huge contradiction to follow both paths.

But ideas from both can be merged. The philosophies are not necessarily contradictory, and even the theology can be changed. After all, there are many different forms of theistic satanism.

GhK.

There can be a very fine line between theism and atheism.

 

[GiantHouseKey]

There can be a very fine line between theism and atheism.

Exactly, which is why it isn't as much of a contradiction as Atreyu is stating

GhK.

 

[Atreyu]

Exactly, which is why it isn't as much of a contradiction as Atreyu is stating

GhK.

Believing in a surpernatural deity and not believing in one is very different and I see no fine line there.

 

[Apion]

UltraViolet,

Not really. They are two epistemologies that will always butt heads with each other. The only way you can stretch your argument is in mere disbelief or belief that something isn't there, which given the certainty level of that position is similar to belief that something is there.

 

[GiantHouseKey]

Believing in a surpernatural deity and not believing in one is very different and I see no fine line there.

Then we are going to need to have a very thorough conversation about my belief system

GhK.

 

[Atreyu]

Then we are going to need to have a very thorough conversation about my belief system

GhK.

Ok lets do

 

[GiantHouseKey]

Ok lets do

Excellent.

Let's start by saying my beliefs regarding the topic of God is atheistic. That is purely to say that I don't believe in the presence of an external personal objective deity. That sounds very specific, because God is a very different thing to different people. Personally, I dislike the term 'God', because of the automatic association with most people's idea of what 'God' is - An omnimax, external, personal, objective deity. I guess you could call Aeya a 'Non-omnimax, internal, impersonal, subjective deity', if that makes a slither of sense.

It's a matter of definition, I imagine, and by my definition of a deity, I am an atheist.

GhK.

 

[Atreyu]

Excellent.

Let's start by saying my beliefs regarding the topic of God is atheistic. That is purely to say that I don't believe in the presence of an external personal objective deity. That sounds very specific, because God is a very different thing to different people. Personally, I dislike the term 'God', because of the automatic association with most people's idea of what 'God' is - An omnimax, external, personal, objective deity. I guess you could call Aeya a 'Non-omnimax, internal, impersonal, subjective deity', if that makes a slither of sense.

It's a matter of definition, I imagine, and by my definition of a deity, I am an atheist.

GhK.

Me to. So what does beleiving have to do with not beleiving.

 

[GiantHouseKey]

Me to. So what does beleiving have to do with not beleiving.

Because the principles of theistic satanism and the principles of atheistic satanism are not entirely mutually exclusive.

GhK.

 

[Atreyu]

Because the principles of theistic satanism and the principles of atheistic satanism are not entirely mutually exclusive.

GhK.

One beleives in the worship of the Devil and the other believes no Devil exists.

 

[GiantHouseKey]

If it is your point that you cannot be a theist and an atheist in respect to the same deity then you are obviously right by definition.

If it is your point that you cannot worship a deity and follow the philosophical code of another religion then I am going to have to disagree with you

GhK.

 

[Adramelek]

Hi Atreyu:

Just now getting around to posting a reply, I apologize for the delay. You said that LaVeyian Satanism and Theistic Satanism are contradictory concepts. I would agree that they are. However, I should state here that I do not accept the existence of either God or the Devil.

There are aspects of LaVeyian Satanism that I do follow such as "The Nine Satanic Statements", "The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth" and my own "Nine Satanic Proverbs". But I am also convinced through personal experience with Magic and Initiation that there is something out there. A metaphysical intelligence, a tangible life force whose essence indwells within humankind (and perhaps other Earthly creatures) and without, in the outer universe.
It is my position that this Being, though it may have an interest in humanity, does not interfere in human events or in our personal lives except maybe once or twice in a lifetime. Though I do think this being did, in aeons past, infuse within that which would become mankind, its own Essence. I call this Action the Greatest Black Magical Working ever performed in the history of the world.

I'm not talking here of some kind of alien being landing on the Earth in a spacecraft, but something much more mysterious. This event could very well be what is known as the "missing link" in human evolution. I also think that if there is other complex intelligent life elsewhere in the Universe, that this Being is responsible for it. Yes, I do think that humanity has a metaphysical aspect to it, I do think that we are much more than just flesh and bone courtesy of this mysterious being.

This Being I refer to is what I call the Lord of Darkness or Satan, Lucifer, or Set, or Prometheus, etc, it has many names and many forms asigned to it by mankind throughout history. I don't think it should be worshipped, as I do not feel that is what it desires from man. I think its hope for us is that we will utilize its "gift" to us towards becoming more than just the sum of our parts. That we will actualize the Gift of the Black Flame, which some call it, to its ultimate potential - Self-deification.

I do not worship the Dark One, I honor it as a Brother and kindred spirit, I look upon it as the ultimate role model and Teacher. To me It is one of the greatest mysteries as is the potential which lies within the Self. And I have sworn to devote a large part of my life towards uncovering the Secrets of the Black Flame, the Dark Lord, and towards actualizing the ultimate potential of Being - this is where my Setianism comes into play. The Key is in understanding and practicing the Powers of Magic, the spawn of the Black Flame which gives us the ability to perceive, to know and understand, and to create, to know beauty, and the Will to Come Into Being - to evolve spiritually.

Forever in the Ebon Flame!
/Adramelek\

 

[KHPR]

Dear GiantHouseKey:

I'm sure there are Setians who would dissagree with you. I am personally a former Setian until I found out some things about them that just didn't sit right. As a Satanist who is convinced of the lagitamate extistence of the Prince of Darkness, I don't think he is limited to one name only like Satan, Lucifer, Set, Prometheus, etc.

I've heard some things from ex-Priesthood members about some of the inner goings on within the ToS hiearchy that are hush, hush, to the lower members. I just have a bad feeling that the once great ToS is falling victim to what caused the catastrophic crisis the CoS encountered back in 1975.

I'm nobody's fool and take what I here from these former ex-priesthood members of the ToS with a grain of salt. However, something inside me tells me that there might be some truth to what they are saying... again, hope they are wrong.

These LHP orgs seem to come and go or either deginerate into nothing more than a money making machine like the CoS no matter how long they've been around.

I asked a member of the ToS who I feel to be a Priesthood member to disprove what I've been told about them, but still no answer. I'll give them another day. Then again, this person may not be aware of the shady goings on in the ToS, an organization that has done so much for the LHP reduced to petty greed.(?)

That's one of the reasons why are currently prefer to be a solitary Sorcerer, I don't have to deal with all the b.s. that goes on in these organized religions. As I see it, I am my own Temple of the Black Flame.

/Adramelek\:bat:

Adramelek,

We're doing just fine. Most of what is kept within the Priesthood is pretty much mundane and if anything would keep the I° & II° from doing their work.

I spoke with a former Setian who was interested in returning and had been away for almost 10 years who I had to tell, trust me, we're not the way we were when you were in anymore meaning that we're more together, more organized and things are pretty calm now and have been so for the past several years since our new High Priest took her place.

Xeper,
Magister Robert Adams
P.S. I'm not exactly sure why this is being posted in the Satanism forum when it would be more appropriate to ask questions or make statements about the Temple of Set in the Setian forum.

 

[KHPR]

I have managed to befriend a number of occultists such as Dr. Aquino (who pops in & out of The 600 Club)

Seeing as Dr. Aquino is a good friend of mine I just sent him an email asking if he posts on the 600 club as I don't think he would after learning his lesson with alt.satanism many years ago so I think that may be an imposter.

Xeper,
Robert Adams

EDIT: I just received an email from Dr. Aquino and yes he does indeed post there occasionally:

Yes, I occasionally kick the can around there for old pre-1975-times-sake when I'm in the mood ... also to clear up various later-era misrepresentations about the original C/S, etc.

Not exactly a Setian-caliber forum, but there are some folks there with their higher selves struggling to get out. ;-)

Xeper.
Michael

 

[nightwraith666]

Dear GiantHouseKey:

I'm sure there are Setians who would dissagree with you. I am personally a former Setian until I found out some things about them that just didn't sit right. As a Satanist who is convinced of the lagitamate extistence of the Prince of Darkness, I don't think he is limited to one name only like Satan, Lucifer, Set, Prometheus, etc.

I've heard some things from ex-Priesthood members about some of the inner goings on within the ToS hiearchy that are hush, hush, to the lower members. I just have a bad feeling that the once great ToS is falling victim to what caused the catastrophic crisis the CoS encountered back in 1975.

I'm nobody's fool and take what I here from these former ex-priesthood members of the ToS with a grain of salt. However, something inside me tells me that there might be some truth to what they are saying... again, hope they are wrong.

These LHP orgs seem to come and go or either deginerate into nothing more than a money making machine like the CoS no matter how long they've been around.

I asked a member of the ToS who I feel to be a Priesthood member to disprove what I've been told about them, but still no answer. I'll give them another day. Then again, this person may not be aware of the shady goings on in the ToS, an organization that has done so much for the LHP reduced to petty greed.(?)

That's one of the reasons why are currently prefer to be a solitary Sorcerer, I don't have to deal with all the b.s. that goes on in these organized religions. As I see it, I am my own Temple of the Black Flame.

/Adramelek\:bat:

As a Setian myself I see no problem with the Prince of Darkness being addressed according to the names by which he is and has been known in many times and places. Are you suggesting that senior initiates of the Temple of Set seek to limit others to addressing the Prince of Darkness as Set only?

So you're stating in a public forum that hearsay and feelings qualify as convincing evidence for you?

You make it sound as if there have been a multitude of Left-Hand Path organizations which have come and gone, having degenerated financial rackets. To my knowledge the Church of Satan is the only one that has succumbed to this particular corruption. Other small and inconsequential groups have certainly come and gone. Others have been a guy with a typewriter pretending to be an organization. Still others are more or less sincere in what they are trying to do and are still around, such as the Order of Phosophorous and Dragon Rouge.

What does this imply? First, that the Left-Hand Path is a broad term that identifies a number of different approaches, which isn't surprising since individualism is a primary factor. Second, that the Left-Hand Path is difficult and that there are more failures than successes. It is after all elitist, for the few and not the many.

As for the Priest(ess) of Set you asked to disprove whatever allegations you're making, which appear to be that we have become a financial racket, there may be several reasons you haven't heard from them. Among them being the fact that you are an outsider of little consequence and they probably have better things to do with their time. My opinion is as good as, and is certainly more informed than, yours.

Unless you were an Initiate of the Priesthood of Set yourself, which doesn't seem likely, you would not have had any drama, administrivia or politics to deal with whatever. In fac there is very little of this to deal with in the Priesthood, as it is dealt with and squelched as soon as it is identified. First and Second Degree Initiates have only their own Xeper to be concerned with and if they get caught up in drama then it certainly has nothing to do with the Priesthood and is nobody's fault but their own. Can you give a specific example of any "b.s." you had to deal with while you were a member?

To summarize, you suggest that there are official policies within the Temple of Set on how Setians are to address the Prince of Darkness, you make vague references suggesting that the Temple has become a financial racket, you site hearsay and feelings as evidence of this, you claim there have been numerous Left-Hand Path organizations that have succumbed to this and claim to have had drama and "b.s." to deal with while you were a member of the Temple without giving specific examples. In short, this isn't a very convincing argument. Would you care to go into more detail or clarification to make your case more convincing? Or is there an actual case?

In the light of the Black Flame,

nightwraith666

PS: I second Magister Adams' suggestion that this thread be moved to the Setian section of this web site, since the allegations are directed at us. Or were you hoping we didn't read the non-Setian sections and therefore wouldn't notice?

 

[Adramelek]

Hi nightwraith666:

The statements I made to gianthousekey I have since recanted as a former Priest of Set was spewing a lot of anti ToS statements in an attempt to turn be against the Temple. I think he was trying to drag me down into his pitty party. I still have the uttmost respect for the ToS, and I'll say it again, I do miss it, and to me the Temple of Set is the only true Temple of the Dark Lord on Earth.

Yeah, I've been associated with several so-called LHP orgs, most of which are now defunct, but it was only as an experiment to see, what, if anything new they had to offer. It was all a part of my life long search for the Lord of Darkness, which I found in the ToS. It was a part of my way of Seeking after a great Mystery, a Key to Xeper.

Forever in the Black Flame!
/Adramelek\