Transgender issues: Why blurring the line between men and women is not the problem

[PoetPhilosopher]

I know that these types of threads can be challenging and sensitive - but I want to share my current perspective on trans people, especially trans females.

I understand that some people may feel uncomfortable or threatened by men who express their gender identity in a way that does not conform to the traditional binary of men and women. They may think that this is a problem that needs to be solved.

However, I believe that the real problem isn't about blurring the line between men and women, but rather the real problem is about creating a rigid and hostile divide between men and women. This can lead to echo chambers, where people only hear opinions that reinforce their own biases and prejudices. And this can result in harmful and isolated views of the other group.

So, as difficult as it may be for some to grasp... Not trying to prohibit people identifying as trans female could actually make female spaces more inclusive and safe, under the right conditions.

And I acknowledge that there are no easy answers to the issues of transgender people and the "politics", as some may call it, around it. But I think that there are more urgent problems to address, before focusing on this. But that's the hard part - the problems that require change are more systemic and complex, and they involve all of us, rather than just one side, to take responsibility - so to speak. Therefore, instead of blaming others, a part of the solution may be to examine our own actions - in general.

I understand that transgender people make up less than 2% of the population. But I believe that this is an issue that will confront everyone sooner or later, and have an impact beyond the trans community.

Update:

I have some concerns some people may have misunderstood my OP. I'll break it down:

I didn't want to spell it out, but I was implying that toxic masculinity was a greater problem than trans females using women's bathrooms (or being with women in women's spaces).

I was (also) saying that those who point fingers, may need to at times, take a look at themselves.

And if anyone asks if I take a look at myself - yes, on a regular basis. There's at least a dozen threads I've started where I 'took a look at myself'.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I understand that transgender people make up less than 2% of the population.

Putting them right up there with left-handed redheads,

and every bit as dangerous ... or not.​

 

[Quintessence]

I find it strange and bizarre to frame this as "allowing" folks to be who they are. Nobody requires permission of someone else to be who and what they are. Whether or not others "allow" someone to be who and what they are is irrelevant. They are who they are. It's not about "allowing" it or not. It's about bothering to accept and understand this aspect of human diversity... or exterminate it.

 

[Watchmen]

Putting them right up there with left-handed redheads,

and every bit as dangerous ... or not.​

My god, man! You have some nerve bringing up left-handed redheads in a place like this.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I find it strange and bizarre to frame this as "allowing" folks to be who they are. Nobody requires permission of someone else to be who and what they are. Whether or not others "allow" someone to be who and what they are is irrelevant. They are who they are. It's not about "allowing" it or not. It's about bothering to accept and understand this aspect of human diversity... or exterminate it.

"Allowing", yes - allowing people their personal autonomy. Much as people allow me mine.

 

[Quintessence]

"Allowing", yes - allowing people their personal autonomy. Much as people allow me mine.

I don't see personal autonomy as something that is "allowed" I guess. I mean, the denial of basic personal autonomy of one human by other humans is... well... erh, I'm just going to leave that there, actually.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I don't see personal autonomy as something that is "allowed" I guess. I mean, the denial of basic personal autonomy of one human by other humans is... well... erh, I'm just going to leave that there, actually.

I respect your opinion. While my wording may have not made a lot of sense on a grander scale, it has to do with my beliefs on there being only limited free will, which have to do with my beliefs regarding Existentialism.

 

[Shaul]

There is no blurry line nor ambiguity. A human male is a person with a Y chromosome. A person without a Y chromosome is female.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

There is no blurry line nor ambiguity. A human male is a person with a Y chromosome. A person without a Y chromosome is female.

Most men have XY, and most women have XX, yes.

Key word being most.

 

[anna.]

There is no blurry line nor ambiguity. A human male is a person with a Y chromosome. A person without a Y chromosome is female.

I was just reading about the Y chromosome today. Apparently they've finally fully sequenced it. And -

The Y chromosome was a particularly hard nut to crack because it is unusually repetitive. . . . In the case of the Y chromosome, it’s as if the same few sentences were repeated for half the length of the book.​

​

That kinda tickled me.

Anyway. There's most definitely ambiguity. But you've probably heard that before.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

There is no blurry line nor ambiguity. A human male is a person with a Y chromosome. A person without a Y chromosome is female.

Most men have XY, and most women have XX, yes.

Key word being most.

Here's a video on the subject:

Spoiler: Sex ed

 

[Shaul]

Most men have XY, and most women have XX, yes.

Key word being most.

All persons with a Y chromosome are males. ALL of them, not most.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I find it strange and bizarre to frame this as "allowing" folks to be who they are. Nobody requires permission of someone else to be who and what they are. Whether or not others "allow" someone to be who and what they are is irrelevant. They are who they are. It's not about "allowing" it or not. It's about bothering to accept and understand this aspect of human diversity... or exterminate it.

Thank you. A very Humanist response.

 

[Shaul]

I was just reading about the Y chromosome today. Apparently they've finally fully sequenced it. And -

The Y chromosome was a particularly hard nut to crack because it is unusually repetitive. . . . In the case of the Y chromosome, it’s as if the same few sentences were repeated for half the length of the book.​

​

That kinda tickled me.

Anyway. There's most definitely ambiguity. But you've probably heard that before.

I've heard many erroneous claims made during my life. That doesn't change facts. All persons with a Y chromosome are males.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

All persons with a Y chromosome are males. ALL of them, not most.

Prove it.

 

[Shaul]

Prove it.

I don't need to. You are the one making an extraordinary claim. The onus is upon you to prove your novel claim.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

"Allowing", yes - allowing people their personal autonomy. Much as people allow me mine.

And you allow theirs, of course (one hopes).

 

[anna.]

I've heard many erroneous claims made during my life. That doesn't change facts. All persons with a Y chromosome are males.

Girl with Y chromosome sheds light on maleness​

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Thank you. A very Humanist response.

I think there's a lot of focus on what I said about "allowing".

What I was trying to say, was that if we don't try to prohibit some people from identifying as trans female, that them being with the women in women's spaces, rather than making women's spaces more dangerous, would bring around the same result, or has the potential to make them safer and more inclusive under the right conditions.

But I used the word "allow" as part of my believing that free will exists, but that sometimes there are some bad/negative/misinformed people out there that try to limit it for others. So while some people wouldn't use the term "Allow personal autonomy", I do under my pessimistic/realistic view that free will can be limited sometimes by bad/negative/misinformed people. So allow, in this case, just means "Allow personal autonomy".

 

[Ella S.]

I think a good portion of transphobia is caused by cisgender men not wanting to be gay. I think that's also why there is such a fixation on binary transgender women rather than transgender men. I think internalized homophobia and biphobia has more to do with transphobia than people might think.

I do think there is also some scare-mongering among conservative women about transgender women being sexually deviant men in disguise, which is rather ignorant, and there is a very small portion of misandrists and female chauvinists with loud voices that we know as "TERFs."

And I think there is quite a bit of hostility from gay and bisexual people because they are afraid of being brought down with transgender people, not unlike how Irish people sought acceptance into white spaces in the US by distancing themselves from black people.

There is some ignorance about the fact that gender exists and that some people really are transgender, as well as prejudicial stereotypes and myths about transgender people such as the idea that transgender women are actually just sexually deviant men with autogynephilia, but I think this misinformation is only spreading because people are already hateful for one of the above reasons.

Non-hateful people have been convinced to agree with transphobic narratives because they genuinely do not know any better or, just as often, are trying to conform to the social groups they are in which have stronger opinions on the topic than they do. Once you get them on board with hate, it's as simple as reinforcing simplistic us vs them narratives. Any question of transgender rights, even something as simple as letting them use the restroom, instead becomes a partisan issue about "protecting" women from "those evil men in dresses."

At the core, though, the problem is that people with significant voices do not actually want inclusivity. They are genuinely hateful and tribalistic. The trick is to reveal that to everyone they've bewitched under their spell of mindless paranoia and outrage.