Transgenderism

[Jose Fly]

Being fundamentalists, they won't stray from what they think the fundamentals of their religion are. If there are errors, society has made them, not their religion. Most won't learn. Thankfully some do and they leave that form of the religion for a more Christ-like form. The rest live with blinders on.

That's another aspect of their behaviors and views that I don't get. Obviously they think it's wrong to be queer, so the obvious conclusion is that they shouldn't be queer. It's no different than Muslims or Orthodox Jews believing it's wrong to eat pork.....they believe it's wrong, so they don't eat it.

But fundamentalists always seem to try and take that next step, where they want to stop everyone else from being queer (or use the force of government to relegate queer folks to second-class status). The equivalent would be Muslims and Orthodox Jews working to ban pork across the country, or using the force of government to punish people who eat pork.

Now to be clear, it's not that I "don't get it" in that I don't understand what's behind it. There is a correlation between religiosity and authoritarianism after all. It's that I really don't understand what drives them to be such bigoted jerks to so many groups of people.

 

[Soandso]

The gays are coming to trans your kids

 

[Jose Fly]

A part of it is their theology that revolves around an eternally static god who never changes. The ways a men change, their god does not.
Another part is following the example left by their messiah. With his recorded behaviors towards those he disapproves of ranging from dickish (calling out people to condemnand threaten them), violent (the merchants and bankers at the Temple) and just bizarre and inappropriate (cursing the fig tree).

I can see the connection between their god never changing and them never changing or learning from the past, but why all the hatred and bigotry in the first place? Jesus spoke far more about loving folks than about hating or persecuting people.

Could it be that they're just inherently distrustful, hateful people who naturally gravitated to a religion that accommodates that sort of thing?

 

[Sand Dancer]

That's another aspect of their behaviors and views that I don't get. Obviously they think it's wrong to be queer, so the obvious conclusion is that they shouldn't be queer. It's no different than Muslims or Orthodox Jews believing it's wrong to eat pork.....they believe it's wrong, so they don't eat it.

But fundamentalists always seem to try and take that next step, where they want to stop everyone else from being queer (or use the force of government to relegate queer folks to second-class status). The equivalent would be Muslims and Orthodox Jews working to ban pork across the country, or using the force of government to punish people who eat pork.

Now to be clear, it's not that I "don't get it" in that I don't understand what's behind it. There is a correlation between religiosity and authoritarianism after all. It's that I really don't understand what drives them to be such bigoted jerks to so many groups of people.

They are taught that America is the chosen place and was started by evangelical Christians. They think it's their duty to continue that. Some are actually taught that America, and maybe the world, has to be run by evangelicals before Jesus will come back. They feel they have secret knowledge from God, so they have the pipeline to truth. Anyone else is disillusioned.

 

[Jose Fly]

They are taught that America is the chosen place and was started by evangelical Christians. They think it's their duty to continue that. Some are actually taught that America, and maybe the world, has to be run by evangelicals before Jesus will come back. They feel they have secret knowledge from God, so they have the pipeline to truth. Anyone else is disillusioned.

I dunno about that. I grew up immersed in fundamentalist Christianity and I'm still in regular contact with it, and while there are occasional mentions of the US being a "Christian nation", I've never gotten the impression that it was a significant driver of their hate and authoritarianism. In fact, I'd say the belief is more a result of their authoritarian tendencies.

I'd say it has more to do with the belief that the Bible is quite literally the word of God. I think sometimes folks underappreciate just how significant that is. Think about it for a sec.....the....word....of.....God. If one truly believes that with all their heart, then it's a small step for someone with authoritarian tendencies to try and mandate that everyone live by it, whether they believe it or not. It's the word of God after all, right?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Jesus spoke far more about loving folks than about hating or persecuting people.

Jesus was a douche to those he didn't like. He trolled Saddeces anf Pharisees, he regularly said "don't be like this person or that person," and there is tons of exclusiveness, punishment and torture, and he stands fully behind his tyrannical father.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

They are taught that America is the chosen place and was started by evangelical Christians. They think it's their duty to continue that. Some are actually taught that America, and maybe the world, has to be run by evangelicals before Jesus will come back. They feel they have secret knowledge from God, so they have the pipeline to truth. Anyone else is disillusioned.

Yup. That's largely what I was tought.

I dunno about that. I grew up immersed in fundamentalist Christianity and I'm still in regular contact with it, and while there are occasional mentions of the US being a "Christian nation", I've never gotten the impression that it was a significant driver of their hate and authoritarianism. In fact, I'd say the belief is more a result of their authoritarian tendencies.

I'd say it has more to do with the belief that the Bible is quite literally the word of God. I think sometimes folks underappreciate just how significant that is. Think about it for a sec.....the....word....of.....God. If one truly believes that with all their heart, then it's a small step for someone with authoritarian tendencies to try and mandate that everyone live by it, whether they believe it or not. It's the word of God after all, right?

Yes and no. They do believe we all must behave because their god has a terrible aim when it comes to punishing sinners. But also Dominionism is a thing. And they do hate gays because the Bible says they are an abomination and calls for their death.

 

[Jose Fly]

Jesus was a douche to those he didn't like. He trolled Saddeces anf Pharisees, he regularly said "don't be like this person or that person," and there is tons of exclusiveness, punishment and torture, and he stands fully behind his tyrannical father.

True, but similar to what I posted above, I can't say that I've ever heard a fundamentalist justify being a hateful bigot by citing Jesus being a jerk. Mostly what I've heard is along the lines of "The Bible says X is wrong, and since it's the word of God it's wrong for everyone, period".

 

[Jose Fly]

Yes and no. They do believe we all must behave because their god has a terrible aim when it comes to punishing sinners. But also Dominionism is a thing. And they do hate gays because the Bible says they are an abomination and calls for their death.

Exactly! By far, the most common phrase I hear from fundamentalists is "Well, the Bible says...", which is used to justify all sorts of things, including hatred and bigotry.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Oh, for the love of Pete. Leave people alone. People have enough problems without people telling them they're evil for just existing because some dusty old 2000+ year old book says so. Ugh.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Jesus was a douche to those he didn't like. He trolled Saddeces anf Pharisees, he regularly said "don't be like this person or that person," and there is tons of exclusiveness, punishment and torture, and he stands fully behind his tyrannical father.

He did call out the conservative religious leaders of his day. I don't count that as bad. They were legalistic busybodies, much like the current crop of New Pharisees in the US.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

He did call out the conservative religious leaders of his day. I don't count that as bad. They were legalistic busybodies, much like the current crop of New Pharisees in the US.

Yeah, but let's nit pretend he was all love and tolerance and hippy like.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Yeah, but let's nit pretend he was all love and tolerance and hippy like.

You are right. I prefer to use the positive "statements" and ignore the bad. Those that take it literally have to speak to the fact that he said some really negative things. A deity that is good and bad and a savior that is good and bad have to be dealt with in one way or another.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You are right. I prefer to use the positive "statements" and ignore the bad. Those that take it literally have to speak to the fact that he said some really negative things. A deity that is good and bad and a savior that is good and bad have to be dealt with in one way or another.

That's why I say we can do better and instead uphold stories and characters without all the baggage. Some ignore the bad, some don't. And those that don't have a hsitory of being very destructive.

 

[Sand Dancer]

That's why I say we can do better and instead uphold stories and characters without all the baggage. Some ignore the bad, some don't. And those that don't have a hsitory of being very destructive.

I am not sure there are any perfect religious characters. Hmm...

 

[Tiberius]

The Bible says to love your neighbour.

It does not then say, "...unless they're trans."

It also says not to judge.

So, treat trans people with respect. Even if there is a God who doesn't like people to be trans, it's God's place to deal with it, not yours. So just love people they way Jesus told you to.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I am not sure there are any perfect religious characters. Hmm...

I like Captain Picard. He's not perfect but he owns up to his faults, and though the image is highly idealistic (to ends that at times just don't seem human at all), he's still a representation of the better side of humanity as he leads his crew through many adventures.
The story itself does so well that it was able to pull a John Lennon behind the scenes where there was an issue with the mistreatment of women. But, even so his songs are of good things and we can still say his songs like Imagine are asperations.

 

[Estro Felino]

What shocks me is that in the United States so many heterosexual cisgender people become trans just like that.
This is highly suspicious.
I think that there is a culture that indoctrinates heterosexual cisgender people.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Could it be that they're just inherently distrustful, hateful people who naturally gravitated to a religion that accommodates that sort of thing?

Some of them no doubtedly. Many are born into it. The idea of leaving it is often deeply terrifying, even if you want to leave. So some are stuck in an abusive relationship.
I would think those looking for more love and less Hell would tend to go elsewhere, especially adults who can more freely choose church attendance.

 

[Windwalker]

Fundamentalism is Satanic.