Transphobia

[mikkel_the_dane]

If I were wrong, you would be able to point out what I said that was wrong. Instead you accuse me of running in circles even though I ask different questions. Admit it! You have no answers.

I haven't followed all of it, but if I recall right you said you use a stereotype. If that is so, you do 2 things that are not the same. One for the sex and one for how a person should act. The latter is gender.

 

[Augustus]

I agree. I've always maintained that everything should be on an individual basis, not on the basis of the judgement of a collective group. There's a difference between saying "I am not sure this risque adult entertainer is suitable for a child's party" and "drag queens are not suitable for a child's party".

I broadly agree, but think we can generalise to some extent.

There appears to be a fad that to some extent (not always) involves hiring risque adult entertainers for kids and some of these seem to have been more appropriate as risque adult entertainers than children’s entertainers. This is the expected outcome of such a fad.

As such, one may view the fad as being somewhat misguided, even while allowing for the fact that many individual performers may be absolutely fine and great entertainment for kids.

 

[Kfox]

What do you see as the issue, then?

The select words it is used to denote disdain. If you have disdain fore foreigners, gays, or trans; they call you xenophobic, homophobic, or transphobic. But if you have disdain for the rich, the religious, or republicans/democrats; nobody seems to put phobic on the end of those words.

 

[Kfox]

Being chronically unable to admit you're wrong is serious character fault.

Consider that.

Just because I continue to ask questions does not mean I refuse to admit when I'm wrong, it means I am not satisfied with your answer.

 

[Kfox]

By what standard?

The select words it is used to denote disdain. If you have disdain fore foreigners, gays, or trans; they call you xenophobic, homophobic, or transphobic. But if you have disdain for the rich, the religious, or republicans/democrats; nobody seems to put phobic on the end of those words.

 

[Augustus]

The question, as worded, does not state whether the event itself includes risque behavior.

You can never tell until the event itself, so people have to make judgements without perfect information.

The question was asking whether it is a predictable outcome of hiring risqué adult entertainers, especially those with minimal experience of children’s entertainment.

Someone can be a good children’s and good adult entertainer, but being good at the latter doesn’t necessarily qualify you for the former.

And if you hire someone from an increased risk category (risqué adult entertainers) then you bear greater responsibility to ensure suitability imo.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The select words it is used to denote disdain. If you have disdain fore foreigners, gays, or trans; they call you xenophobic, homophobic, or transphobic.

And rightly so.

But if you have disdain for the rich, the religious, or republicans/democrats; nobody seems to put phobic on the end of those words.

Not entirely true; Islamophobia is a thing. Religiophobia and ecclesiophobia are both real words.

"Republicophobia" and "democratophobia" both just strike me as really awkward words.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

You can never tell until the event itself, so people have to make judgements without perfect information.

The question was asking whether it is a predictable outcome of hiring risqué adult entertainers, especially those with minimal experience of children’s entertainment.

Someone can be a good children’s and good adult entertainer, but being good at the latter doesn’t necessarily qualify you for the former.

And if you hire someone from an increased risk category (risqué adult entertainers) then you bear greater responsibility to ensure suitability imo.

Hm...

My answer would be no if these are the parameters. This is based on several reasons:

- "Risque" is a fairly subjective term, and in the case of childrearing what parents consider inappropriate varies according to culture and individual values.

- Drag queens don't necessarily include adult risque behavior. I have a cousin that's a Cher impersonator. This consists of dressing as a really convincing Cher and lipsynching to music. Very kid-friendly as long as the parents approve of the music. Many drag shows don't include sexual content.

- Entertainers (typically) have an awareness of context and, as long as they are professional, can fit their art to the event. No, this isn't perfect, but sometimes we have to have some trust in professionals.

I would, barring appropriate data suggesting otherwise, deem this low risk and say "no" to the question based on the parameters you provided.

 

[Kfox]

Not entirely true; Islamophobia is a thing. Religiophobia and ecclesiophobia are both real words.

Why do you suppose you never hear of anyone using the terms religiophobia or ecclesiophobia, but you hear of xenophobia, or homophobia all the time? Probably because religiophobia and ecclesiophobia are terms used to discribe an actual fear, where xeno, homo, or other such terms is to denote dislike or prejustice. IMO if (example) trans phobia is about hate, then religiophobia should be about hate as well. If ecclesiophobia is limited to an actual fear, then xenophobia should be limited to an actual fear also.,

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Why do you suppose you never hear of anyone using the terms religiophobia or ecclesiophobia, but you hear of xenophobia, or homophobia all the time?

Because "-phobia" has the connotation that the fear or aversion is irrational.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I was actually making the claim that he/him and she/her are also biological references, that just because a female who presents as female, but does not fit into the typical female roles society has deemed for women, we still refer to her as she/her; perhaps not due to her gender but due to her biology.

My point is; if she is a biological female with a five-o-clock shadow, she is still she/her. If a man has breasts and lactates due to some medical issue, he is still he/him

It is helpful to differentiate between gender as a social construct and gender to refer to biological characteristics, however, especially as humans move towards looser gender role restrictions and medical science improves the ability to change the sexual characteristics of the body.

 

[Kfox]

Because "-phobia" has the connotation that the fear or aversion is irrational.

accusations of xenophobia or trans phobia have nothing to do with fear or aversion.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

accusations of xenophobia or trans phobia have nothing to do with fear or aversion.

Sure they don't.

Anyhow, you missed my point: rational responses to things don't get called "phobias." The word "phobia" is reserved for irrational responses.

 

[Kfox]

I haven't followed all of it, but if I recall right you said you use a stereotype. If that is so, you do 2 things that are not the same. One for the sex and one for how a person should act. The latter is gender.

The person I was having a conversation with described gender as a societal aspect attached to biology but not dependent on biology. I concluded this was basically a stereotype applied to males and females, that’s why I brought it up. But such stereotypes is not something I go along with,

 

[Kfox]

Sure they don't.

Anyhow, you missed my point: rational responses to things don't get called "phobias." The word "phobia" is reserved for irrational responses.

What constitutes a rational response is completely subjective. I know people who consider robbing others at gunpoint a rational response to not having enough money.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What constitutes a rational response is completely subjective. I know people who consider robbing others at gunpoint a rational response to not having enough money.

Missing the point again.

When someone calls something a phobia, one implication is that they consider the thing irrational. Yes, this is subjective.

 

[Audie]

I would never hire a person if they were " trans".

 

[Audie]

Missing the point again.

When someone calls something a phobia, one implication is that they consider the thing irrational. Yes, this is subjective.

A mental condition. I will not use any of those
-phobia terms.
To do so is ceding them the right to control the conversation.

 

[Audie]

What constitutes a rational response is completely subjective. I know people who consider robbing others at gunpoint a rational response to not having enough money.

It is rational. Not very nice, but rationality is not about
being nice.

 

[Father Heathen]

I would never hire a person if they were " trans".

You would crush their dreams of becoming a gutter oil collector?