Transphobia

[Kfox]

It's modern use (the word itself comes from the Greek god Phobos) was defined about 200 years ago as “a fear of an imaginary evil, or an undue fear of a real one.” And ever since we've been using it as a suffix in a way that has changed very little.

No; today it is used to describe beliefs and opinions that have nothing to do with fear.

Don't assume your ignorance of history makes you right.

What did I say that you disagree with?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

For instance, men that identify as women suddenly participate in women's sports demanding to use women's bathrooms etc.

Sudden widespread awareness doesn't meam theae things are suddenly happening. These things have been happening for a long time.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No; today it is used to describe beliefs and opinions that have nothing to do with fear.

Irrational fear and hatred is how it's defined today. Indeed, that is a very minor adjustment from the original definition (especially considering that in that timespan some words dramatically change in mean). And it's suitable for it include both as irrational fears amd hatreds are often found together and feed off of eachother.

 

[icehorse]

I already mentioned that I disagreed regarding attempted deception and gave my argument. You didn't acknowledge seeing it much less explain why you disagree, so you repeating you comment isn't meaningful.

Apathy? Are you referring to my tolerance of LGBTQ? I'm a humanist. Our values are rational and compassionate, so I have no reason to make such people's lives harder -nobody telling me that a good god want their hell to begin on earth antemortem.

Interesting that you see hedonist and procreator as conflicting options. The pursuit of satisfaction has defined my life, since I don't have any religion telling me to feel guilty about experiencing pleasure, nature wired us to seek what is pleasant and avoid the unpleasant, and it's worked out well despite the warnings from the faithful that it would be otherwise.

Nah. That's a minority position. Virtually nobody is trying to get you to sleep with people that don't appeal to you.

Maybe. I don't have a problem with bigots being made uncomfortable - with those crying "woke" being called Neanderthal This is a culture war, a battle between the elements that support tolerance and the intolerant. Ridicule is a valuable tool when reasoning is ineffective. We can offer reasoned argument to those that care about such things, and appeal to the consciences of those that have them, but ridicule is useful for pushing back at those not amenable to either.

A person can be "pro-trans" and "anti-some-trans-agendas" at the same time. What's a problem, is when causes that appear to be promoting tolerance become dogmatic and intolerant in the process.

 

[Kfox]

Irrational fear and hatred is how it's defined today.

If that's true, why are people accused of transphobic when they have no fear of transgender people? Heck; you don't even have to hate them; just having the wrong attitude towards them and you get called trans phobic.

 

[Twilight Hue]

If that's true, why are people accused of transphobic when they have no fear of transgender people? Heck; you don't even have to hate them; just having the wrong attitude towards them and you get called trans phobic.

Which isnt working anymore.

More people are calling it for what it is and screw the people doing the name calling.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

just having the wrong attitude towards them

That's how it is with prejudiced attitudes, which of course today holding prejudiced attitudes (which are the wrong attitudes) amd the word phobia are more synonymous with each other. Such things happen.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

More people

No, it's not more people just because there is more widespread awareness. If anything, today I'd say there's less than in the past though there is a more vocal group of bigots today.

 

[Kfox]

Which isnt working anymore.

More people are calling it for what it is and screw the people doing the name calling.

For a lot of people, name calling works.

 

[Kfox]

That's how it is with prejudiced attitudes, which of course today holding prejudiced attitudes (which are the wrong attitudes) amd the word phobia are more synonymous with each other. Such things happen.

My point is; the term phobia is no longer used to describe irrational fear or hatred, the term is now used as a pejorative for those whose particular political views do not align with the powers that be.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

My point is; the term phobia is no longer used to describe irrational fear or hatred, the term is now used as a pejorative for those whose particular political views do not align with the powers that be.

Such as?

 

[Kfox]

Such as?

Consider the name of this thread. Do you really believe 99.9% of the people accused of transphobia have an actual fear or hatred of people describing themselves as transphobic? People are called trans phobic for the following reasons

*Refusing to use preferred pronouns
*Refusing to date transgender people
*Disagree with the idea of trans people using shower and restroom facilities of their choosing
*Disagree that trans women are equal to real women
*Disagree that trans women should be able to compete against biological women in sports

And the list goes on. Does any of that stuff sound like it's based on actual fear? No. Phobia today is used as a pejorative against people who do not agree with the political positions of the powers that be. This is a complete change from the traditional use of the word.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And the list goes on. Does any of that stuff sound like it's based on actual fear? No.

It's based on irrational hatred amd fear, which is a phobia. Like the restroom thing. Nothing to fear but yet transphobes act like it's going to lead to bad things. That sentiment is rooted in fear and hatred.

 

[Kfox]

It's based on irrational hatred amd fear, which is a phobia. Like the restroom thing. Nothing to fear but yet transphobes act like it's going to lead to bad things. That sentiment is rooted in fear and hatred.

I disagree.

*Refusing to use preferred pronouns; because you refuse to be controlled.
*Refusing to date transgender; because you are not attracted to same sex
*Disagree with them using shower facilities of their choosing; privacy issue
*Disagree trans women are the same as biological women; because it’s true
*Disagree trans women should compete in female sports; because they have a biological advantage

None of this is based in fear, none of it based on hatred, all of it is based on either facts, preferences, or point of view.

 

[Callisto]

Consider the name of this thread. Do you really believe 99.9% of the people accused of transphobia have an actual fear or hatred of people describing themselves as transphobic? People are called trans phobic for the following reasons

The word "transphobia" is used the same way the far right uses "woke". Both are terms used to shut down and negate any attempt at rational discourse. Any comment that diverges from the given narrative is to be immediately invalidated, regardless of context and regardless of whether the speaker is otherwise in agreement with other points of the narrative. Step one hair outside the narrative then you are a transphobe or woke, depending on who's doing the bleating.

Some people don't want to have discourse and won't admit there are parts of their ideology and activism that are flawed, that there are bad players and bad ideology mixed within their ranks. It's the way of the extremist, either fully comply or be demonized and canceled. In the case of the trans movement, it's costing allies; with conservatives, it's costing voters.

 

[Kfox]

The word "transphobia" is used the same way the far right uses "woke". Both are terms used to shut down and negate any attempt at rational discourse. Any comment that diverges from the given narrative is to be immediately invalidated, regardless of context and regardless of whether the speaker is otherwise in agreement with other points of the narrative. Step one hair outside the narrative then you are a transphobe or woke, depending on who's doing the bleating.

Some people don't want to have discourse and won't admit there are parts of their ideology and activism that are flawed, that there are bad players and bad ideology mixed within their ranks. It's the way of the extremist, either fully comply or be demonized and canceled. In the case of the trans movement, it's costing allies; with conservatives, it's costing voters.

I have never heard a person called "woke" for having a specific point of view, I've heard lots of people called transphobic, homophobic, islamphobic, xenophobic, and countless other phobics for having a specific point of view.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

None of this is based in fear, none of it based on hatred, all of it is based on either facts, preferences, or point of view.

Misgendering people is rude and hateful. Things like that shouldn't have to explained to an adult but unfortunately it must be to Conservatives who thump their Bible. Might be because the Bible doesn't actually teach manners.
Restroom? Irrational fear.

Disagree trans women are the same as biological women; because it’s true

Stuff like that, it's mostly used in a hateful, mean way and then self excused by pointing out water is wet.
Try again.

 

[icehorse]

Misgendering people is rude and hateful. Things like that shouldn't have to explained to an adult but unfortunately it must be to Conservatives who thump their Bible. Might be because the Bible doesn't actually teach manners.
Restroom? Irrational fear.

Stuff like that, it's mostly used in a hateful, mean way and then self excused by pointing out water is wet.
Try again.

Careful, I think your dogma is showing

 

[Callisto]

I have never heard a person called "woke" for having a specific point of view, I've heard lots of people called transphobic, homophobic, islamphobic, xenophobic, and countless other phobics for having a specific point of view.

Right extremists don't use "phobic" the way left extremists do, everything that is too far left for the speaker (and, you don't have to go far at all to get there) is "woke". If something feels a little too "diverse" or "inclusive" (2 words that are often spat rather than spoken), it's woke. They're economical that way, one word to denounce many things with.

 

[Kfox]

Misgendering people is rude and hateful.

Rude is based on your personal opinion. You have no evidence that hate is behind this refusal.

Restroom? Irrational fear.

You have no reason to claim fear unless they tell you it’s fear. Unless you can read minds, you have no justification to make such a claim otherwise.

Stuff like that, it's mostly used in a hateful, mean way and then self excused by pointing out water is wet.
Try again.

Trans women are not the same as biological women; this is basic science. Is science hateful now?