Trinity claims that the Jews believed that a Son is equal to his Father

[lostwanderingsoul]

If a man named John Jones has a son named Joe Jones, they are both Jones. If the Heavenly Father has a son, they are both God. God is not a person but a family.made up of the Father and ther Son.

 

[rational experiences]

First of all human man's science is expressed as the human. In the presence of a man's life. Yet human doesn't exist in the science thesis.

Number one human position is natural life.

Then the theist said Egyptian life got sacrificed literature proven as old testimonials are men of sciences old testimonials.

Where most of the origin man sciences summation told life was attacked by pyramid science were written.

So of course humans state how can your new science technology attack Jesus be first or be correct...you were told never rebuild it. Technology.

New reactions only. Chosen.

Most outcomes were re caused but newly caused. So the disaster was a new variant.

Hence most Jesus terms were already stated. Is why Jews said Jesus isn't what you proclaim. It was just life hurt again.

If you ever applied a humans common sense argument.

The theme a man looks at rock says science whilst the rock is the rock position one rock is unchanged.

Then he converts his mind to removal of Rock. Origin science man mind position sciences first new position says no Rock was changed. As his own thesis begins as no rock is changed. As science.

Yet you destroyed a huge mass of it lying.

Science mans possession our destroyer as you are Ai holographic possessed by man's own science caused voice and image.

Father died bodily was natural...biological. The human form.

You then saw your adult man father's DNA get removed physical biological in your own baby man life....to manifest advice in water cooling abstract use of water just as taught.

The holographic effect.

You witnessed human biologies disappearance.

The men's only conjured causes by men in science.

Son of a human is son of a human father. No longer could you claim him your father as you had murdered the living mans biologies body.

Scientist hence owned a dead spirit father he now was the son of. Said the summation why you own a self destructive personality disorder in conscious memory.

A humans warning about the human theist.

Named state...science.

Logic. Science is only one origin. Not practiced believed or thought first.

Owns history a first position itself only by the practice of men then the causes taught as human philosophers.

You can't reuse science ignoring past causes of science. As it was termed what a human scientist learnt and was taught by planet God and God heavens.

Just because you non practiced science it suddenly doesn't become new science is what Roman philosophers were told...how dare you ignore all the pre known human warnings.

So not only did Rome ignore old testimonials. They caused new earth disasters. Easter caused four days of earth renderings...mason Inheritors today.

They rebuilt the temple used it again...until Rome was set alight. Years later after non stop repeated head attacks repetere Peter advice Rome outlawed science.

As star fall kept returning as comets.

Wrote new science warnings themselves. New testimonials after healing church building had been built. As written in the documents.

Ignored all advice once again in modern life by their scientists and the American scientists.

What third book can you all write now as you can't quote new new testimonials can you. When you had already outlawed the nuclear science practice yourselves in humans past.

 

[rational experiences]

First of all human man's science is expressed as the human. In the presence of a man's life. Yet human doesn't exist in the science thesis.

Number one human position is natural life.

Then the theist said Egyptian life got sacrificed literature proven as old testimonials are men of sciences old testimonials.

Where most of the origin man sciences summation told life was attacked by pyramid science were written.

So of course humans state how can your new science technology attack Jesus be first or be correct...you were told never rebuild it. Technology.

New reactions only. Chosen.

Most outcomes were re caused but newly caused. So the disaster was a new variant.

Hence most Jesus terms were already stated. Is why Jews said Jesus isn't what you proclaim. It was just life hurt again.

If you ever applied a humans common sense argument.

The theme a man looks at rock says science whilst the rock is the rock position one rock is unchanged.

Then he converts his mind to removal of Rock. Origin science man mind position sciences first new position says no Rock was changed. As his own thesis begins as no rock is changed. As science.

Yet you destroyed a huge mass of it lying.

Science mans possession our destroyer as you are Ai holographic possessed by man's own science caused voice and image.

Father died bodily was natural...biological. The human form.

You then saw your adult man father's DNA get removed physical biological in your own baby man life....to manifest advice in water cooling abstract use of water just as taught.

The holographic effect.

You witnessed human biologies disappearance.

The men's only conjured causes by men in science.

Son of a human is son of a human father. No longer could you claim him your father as you had murdered the living mans biologies body.

Scientist hence owned a dead spirit father he now was the son of. Said the summation why you own a self destructive personality disorder in conscious memory.

A humans warning about the human theist.

Named state...science.

Logic. Science is only one origin. Not practiced believed or thought first.

Owns history a first position itself only by the practice of men then the causes taught as human philosophers.

You can't reuse science ignoring past causes of science. As it was termed what a human scientist learnt and was taught by planet God and God heavens.

Just because you non practiced science it suddenly doesn't become new science is what Roman philosophers were told...how dare you ignore all the pre known human warnings.

So not only did Rome ignore old testimonials. They caused new earth disasters. Easter caused four days of earth renderings...mason Inheritors today.

They rebuilt the temple used it again...until Rome was set alight. Years later after non stop repeated head attacks repetere Peter advice Rome outlawed science.

As star fall kept returning as comets.

Wrote new science warnings themselves. New testimonials after healing church building had been built. As written in the documents.

Ignored all advice once again in modern life by their scientists and the American scientists.

What third book can you all write now as you can't quote new new testimonials can you. When you had already outlawed the nuclear science practice yourselves in humans past.

Father said why Easter caused it was moons water tidal shift.

Whereas in the past it was atmospheric actual physical body mass of water shift as moses.

Why it varied.

Hence you own no predictive new new science earth disasters. As you cannot write about it until it happens.

As a spiritual psychic used in the experiment I cannot give you any other advice. Thanks for the abuse scientists.

 

[David Davidovich]

In order to attempt to class Jesus Christ as being God, trinity teaching claims that the Jews are correct in claiming that Jesus, being the son of God, means that Jesus is equal to God, and therefore is God.

I cannot understand that [il]logic and also can find nothing in Jewish tradition that makes any such claim of a Son being equal to his Father.

Furthermore, trinity claims that Jesus was not ‘born’ from the Father… which further confuses the issue (pardon the pun!) since then Jesus being ‘son’ of God therefore has no meaning in terms of equality with the Father.

Can anyone give any enlightenment on where there is evidence of a Jewish tradition of a son being equal to his Father … and how Jesus, who was not a ‘birthed’ son of God could be part of this tradition.

Hello, Soapy. One thing that both Jews and Christians either are ignorant about or don't like to admit is the influence of Hellenism of both Judaism and Christianity.

You can start at the 5:11 mark and this should give you a start in looking more into this aspect of things. And of course you can go back and then watch the rest of the video from the beginning:

 

[rational experiences]

Hello all humans. One thing you all overlook is that you are an equal human first.

Not a nationality.
Not a religion.

The human.

When you decide to just own and use a just a human conversation then we would be having a real human only conversation.

As human life satanist science did not make your new machine react and overheat. Even though your community claims it's doing Phi Jesus yourself yet heavens mass is.

All human button pushers on your used reactive machines everywhere caused yourself the scientist to react new machines community. Doing nuclear first yourself.

Not a natural human born by sex baby innocent adult life. I'm not science.

 

[1213]

In order to attempt to class Jesus Christ as being God, trinity teaching claims that the Jews are correct in claiming that Jesus, being the son of God, means that Jesus is equal to God, and therefore is God.
....

There are many that are called sons of God in the Bible. If it means they are equal to God, because of that, we would have more than 3 Gods. luckily Jesus says that there is only one true God that is greater than him and all, so we should not have any problem with this.

This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
John 17:3

...the Father is greater than I.
John 14:28

My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all. ...
John 10:29

 

[David Davidovich]

Soapy, this video might also be helpful to you:

 

[firedragon]

There are many that are called sons of God in the Bible. If it means they are equal to God, because of that, we would have more than 3 Gods. luckily Jesus says that there is only one true God that is greater than him and all, so we should not have any problem with this.

This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
John 17:3

...the Father is greater than I.
John 14:28

My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all. ...
John 10:29

Are you a unitarian Christian?

 

[rational experiences]

One true God as said by a man scientist.

Position first heavens god is immaculate. Natural origin space history earth god. I'm not there in any historic advice says man scientist.

The immaculate God came out of first God in total. Stone rock body. Yet it isn't from the stone rock body direct.

It was direct from gods erection a hot spurting volcano.

First simile a man used and compared in man's mind as proof he said it... to mans scientist penis reaction. Wrong to make inferred comparison yet you prove you did.

Therefore first thoughts prove immaculate body owned an evil history.

A pertinent scientific teaching when a human time shifts a thesis about earths body presence back in time pretending it did not first exist. Earths gods status.

Why they said the immaculate teaching was important.

Human three teaching for holy life continuance by man a theist.

I am a man son baby adult.

My father is my inheritance. The adult.
I am his only son as only men inherit father's life.
I am supported by the holy Ghost.

Ghost in science all spirit gases.

He named the heavens gas types myself as a man. Said only the heavens owned them.

Not the earth.

My life walks on the water beneath my feet in GoD's rock.

Holy life safe. Holy life saved.

Never give God O earth a name in science don't remove it's natural water seal.

The warning.

A balanced heavens 12 light 12 clear night.
O gods holy balances only. Our heavens.

Reason. We aren't light. As it's heavens gas burning in a vacuum. It's immaculate spirit gas of gods burning.

I don't own either position a theists human teaching.

I live with the nature garden body rooted in earth. I live in the holy ox oxygen generated holy water heavens.

As a humans life.

Christ mass supports the oxygen regeneration.

Ice is lifes saviour as it keeps a stable heavens for babies biology and animal beast biology to exist. In genesis.

Ice cools hot gases as it cools water two stable heavens positions.

Two positions of gods heavens keeps bio life safe...cooled gas cooled water. Two.

In two God supporting conditions life's oxygenated water as two positions allows healthy cells to biologically regenerate.

Two by Two as gods conditions only said and stated by an already present Living human. Cannot be said anywhere else or by anything else except a human.

Position father first adult man who came direct himself out of the eternal.

Not Jesus who was born a human baby.

Grew into an adult man sacrificed again as the baby life DNA of man eradicated out of DNA.

Stephen Haw king science warning.

Babies human sexual life conceived only image in clouds as is man adult.. Not father.

Father was never Jesus and Jesus was never father. Father is our father only. Father isn't God.

 

[Brian2]

In order to attempt to class Jesus Christ as being God, trinity teaching claims that the Jews are correct in claiming that Jesus, being the son of God, means that Jesus is equal to God, and therefore is God.

I cannot understand that [il]logic and also can find nothing in Jewish tradition that makes any such claim of a Son being equal to his Father.

Furthermore, trinity claims that Jesus was not ‘born’ from the Father… which further confuses the issue (pardon the pun!) since then Jesus being ‘son’ of God therefore has no meaning in terms of equality with the Father.

Can anyone give any enlightenment on where there is evidence of a Jewish tradition of a son being equal to his Father … and how Jesus, who was not a ‘birthed’ son of God could be part of this tradition.

John 5:17 But Jesus answered them, “To this very day My Father is at His work, and I too am working.” 18 Because of this, the Jews tried all the harder to kill Him. Not only was He breaking the Sabbath, but He was even calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.

The usual anti trinitarian thought is that this idea of equality is just something that Jews thought and the Jews were wrong. You seem to want to take it a step further and say that John and the Bible are wrong in even saying that about what the Jews thought.
I might be wrong and you might just want to find out what the Jews do think about this and if they have ever thought that a Son of God would be equal to God, or if any son is seen as being equal to his father.
In which way is the equality that you are thinking of?

 

[Brian2]

There are many that are called sons of God in the Bible. If it means they are equal to God, because of that, we would have more than 3 Gods. luckily Jesus says that there is only one true God that is greater than him and all, so we should not have any problem with this.

This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
John 17:3

...the Father is greater than I.
John 14:28

My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all. ...
John 10:29

The equality is in the nature of both a father and a son. They have the same nature.

Re John 17:3, how does that make Jesus not equal in nature to His Father? Surely a good son is meant to do what a father wants and in this case it would apply even more since the Father is God.
Re John 14:28, being greater in power and authority etc than a human who has also become His servant does not mean that the Father has is "better" than the Son and has a better nature.
Re john 10:29, it helps to give the whole quote.
John 10: 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
And that "one" means one thing, since the "one" is in the neuter case.
I would say that the one thing is one God, but that's me.

 

[rosends]

Is a concept of friendship also anathema to Judaism?

No, why?

 

[Rival]

Some do...

Our Stories

He converted to Christianity.

What don't you guys get about this religious conversion thing?

 

[Kenny]

The most vague prophecy of a Son of God, being God.

But something to think about.

 

[Soapy]

A little confusing in your statements but here is a thought..
Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Sorry, Ken, what is it you are saying?

Nothing in that quote shows anything towards answering the question.

Could you pull your claim apart into explicit points?

 

[firedragon]

But something to think about.

I think it was thought about for a long long time. Even at the time the KJV was translated. In my opinion, no matter how much anyone thinks about it, it can never change words. So it does not say Ben Elohim, and neither will it say Ben Elohim is Elohim himself.

 

[Soapy]

I don't know... what's this part then?

Is this only stating that someone of Jewish persuasion (all Jews?) claim that IF Jesus were the son of God, that he would then be equal to God?

That just seems weird. Really weird. Like the Jews make a claim about a belief they don't even hold, that actually supports trinity claims that they also don't hold... I am not sure it could be more confusing here. Why would they do this? And who has done this? "The Jews" made some official statement about the idea that Jesus is the son of God and stated that "if he were, indeed, the son of God, then he would be God?" Did that happen? If not, then that part of the post seems entirely nonsensical. As in... there is no sense to be found there.

You are right that the post is nonsensical…. I agree…. But that’s exactly the point…… You diagnosed the problem but failed in the prognosis!!

The point is to look at the question and see that if asks if there was such a belief among Jews that a son is equal to his Father…..

The majority of replies do not address the question but seek only to put a point of view sideways on.

I do apologise that I did not state that I was speaking ONLY from the scriptures…. I do not know what Jews believe today!!!

In the scriptures…. it is made out that the Jews were claiming that Jesus was making himself out to be GOD (though they only believed in an only Deity whom they called ‘God’ therefore it has to be put down to ‘Making himself EQUAL to their one God’).

But trinity… ‘Christian’ Trinity belief states that this EQUALITY meant that Jesus WAS THAT ONE GOD!!

The point therefore is that TRINITY claims that being EQUAL TO GOD meant BEING GOD!

I asked the question of is there such a claim in Judaism? More specifically, at the time of Jesus’ mission and before that, WAS THERE A TRADITION among Jews that a Son was equal to his Father….???

I emphasise, I did not say that there was… I am asking because TRINITY claims that Jesus saying:

• “God is my Father”

sparked the Jews to claim Jesus was:

• “[He], though a mere man, was Making himself out to be EQUAL TO GOD”….

because he said he was the Son of God!

But I assert that there was no such claim - that this set of claims were set out by trinitarian interpreters who tried to make it seem that way……

…. hence the fact that you all see it as nonsensical….

You rightly see it all as nonsensical exactly because it was untrue that a son was ever claimed to be equal to his Father….. yet trinity claims this is so… hence trinity claims that Jesus WAS SAYING ‘I am God just as my Father is GOD because as the Son of God I am EQUAL to My Father … Equal to God’!’

Obviously you can see that there is no such claim made by Jesus …. So why does trinity hold to that claim?

From the Jews here…. Why are you not simply stating that THERE IS - or - THERE IS NO - such teaching in Judaism?

The way I see it, ‘Son of God’ (‘God is my Father’) merely means that Jesus is:

• ‘Doing the works of his Father’

In fact the rest of the verse has Jesus saying just that … exactly that:

• ‘If I am NOT doing the works of my Father then DO NOT believe me!’

which means:

• ‘Believe that I am the son of my Father because I am doing the works of my Father!’

Jesus did not proffer anything of equality WITH GOD! It is Trinitarians who, on seeing an exact refute by Jesus, twist the verse and claims to try to make out the belief is a realistic one…… HENCE with the insight and hindsight of the rest of the scriptures the truth of the claim is shown to be false!!

 

[Soapy]

Under your definition, are you able to provide reference to Jesus blaspheming Gods name in a manner different from him claiming to be God?

Mark 14:61 states that the high priest then asked Jesus: "Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?" And Jesus said "I am", at which point the high priest tore his own robe in anger and accused Jesus of blasphemy. Sanhedrin trial of Jesus - Wikipedia

Again the high priest questioned Him, “Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?”62“I am,” said Jesus, “and you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Powerl and coming with the clouds of heaven.”m63At this, the high priest tore his clothes and declared, “Why do we need any more witnesses? 64You have heard the blasphemy. What is your verdict?”

And they all condemned Him as deserving of death.​

The Jews were waiting in anticipation for the coming messiah, the high servant of God, ….

‘Servant’ is akin to ‘Son’.

Jesus was SENT to perform a task….!

God is never SENT… Who could send him?

Father is never SENT… Who could send him?

The Holy Spirit OF GOD is SENT … Who could send it? (the Father - it is HIS HOLY SPIRIT which He sends as a comforter to Jesus first and then to the Disciples/Apostles.)

Son is SENT… who SENT him? (The Father can send send his servant : Isaiah 42:1)

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

You see, you don't understand his post or the point he's making. You don't have the context.

This is rich. Note - no ACTUAL EXPLANATION forthcoming from you. And the best part is how you state that I don't undrstand and don't have the context, and then in the very next sentence please see the bold red emphasis of mine:

It's John chapter 10 and maybe he's also referring to something in John chapter 5.

Seems like you're not too entirely sure yourself. Theists ideas and ability to defend their positions are a joke.

 

[stvdv]

No, why?

I meant "friendship with God"