True and False Prophets - Just and Honest Determination

[Brian2]

But what can you do when they interpret things in the Bible to make them prophecies about Baha'u'llah?

Bill Sears book, "Thief in the Night", is filled with them.

In the end it is just showing how poor their arguments are and that they are claiming things for Baha'u'llah which belong to Jesus.

 

[Trailblazer]

In the end it is just showing how poor their arguments are and that they are claiming things for Baha'u'llah which belong to Jesus.

Sorry, those prophecies cannot belong to Jesus since Jesus has not returned.

Ever took a course in logic?

 

[Trailblazer]

Coming again after His disciples die and resurrecting them to be with Him is no problem Biblically. It is a problem for Baha'is however who have a different idea of what death is and what resurrection is.

John 14:2-3 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Jesus did not say "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back to earth again, and resurrect you from your graves; that where I am, there ye may be also."

So Baha'is who accept the teachings of Baha'i over the teachings of the Bible do not actually know that Jesus was not referring to coming again in this age. You believe however that the Bible must be wrong here (John 14:2-3).

I will come again, and receive you unto myself.

Jesus was only addressing the disciples in John 14:2-3, so even if Jesus was coming to get the disciples, that does not mean He was coming back to the world.

The truth however is that in the Bible Jesus actually did say at John 14:2-3 that He would be coming back to get His disciples.

The Bible might say that but that does not mean that Jesus said that. But even if Jesus said everything in John, you still have these verses to contend with.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

By "according to their true meaning" you mean "according to the meaning that the con man who wanted to be called the return of Christ, told you that the prophecies must mean".

No according to what the prophecies actually say. Baha'u'llah had nothing to do with establishing the meaning of any prophecies.

Nobody else does that and nobody else walks on water or heals the blind or forgives sins etc.

Nobody drops down from the sky in physical clouds.

Sorry if I insist that when Jesus says "I am coming again" that it means that, or that when an angel says that "the same Jesus is coming" that it means that.

Do you have a reading comprehension problem?
Jesus never said "I am coming again." Jesus said He was never coming again.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

No more means never again.

It is all in the beliefs of Baha'is, not in anything that we can all say has happened.

What you think Jesus will when He returns that is all beliefs, nothing that has happened.
In the case of Baha'u'llah it has all happened. The incontrovertible evidence is all contained in the history of the Baha'i Faith.

Jesus sits on the throne of David forever so Isa 9: 6-7 is just a way that Baha'u'llah is dishonoring Jesus and claiming for himself, what belongs to Jesus.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

“The Throne upon which He sat is the Eternal Throne from which Christ reigns for ever, a heavenly throne, not an earthly one, for the things of earth pass away but heavenly things pass not away. He re-interpreted and completed the Law of Moses and fulfilled the Law of the Prophets. His word conquered the East and the West. His Kingdom is everlasting.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Paris Talks, Pages 54-57

The Isaiah 9:6-7 prophecies are about Baha'u'llah. They do not pertain to Jesus since Jesus did none of these things. Moreover, Jesus never claimed to be the Father, Jesus claimed to be the Son of God. Jesus said He came not to bring peace, but a sword. Jesus said to Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's.

Isaiah 9:6-7 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

“THE Most Great Law is come, and the Ancient Beauty ruleth upon the throne of David. Thus hath My Pen spoken that which the histories of bygone ages have related. At this time, however, David crieth aloud and saith: ‘O my loving Lord! Do Thou number me with such as have stood steadfast in Thy Cause, O Thou through Whom the faces have been illumined, and the footsteps have slipped!’”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 89-90

It is Jesus according to the Bible.

It is Baha'u'llah ruling in the New Jerusalem on the throne of God.
The Bible might indicate it would be Jesus but that is only a belief and a hope. It is not a reality since Jesus has not returned to rule.

John 14: 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me

No need to discuss this verse again. See above.

John 14:28 “You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’

That is very straight forward but you say that Jesus never planned to return to earth.

John 14
28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.
30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

And come again unto you means His spirit would come again in another person, not that His body would come again.

Abdu'l-Baha has interpreted the prince of this world as referring to Baha'u'llah.

Baha’u’llah as the Prince of Peace

Who, Biblical scholars have long asked, is “the Prince of this world” (John 14:30)? Christians universally identify the “Prince of Peace” (Isaiah 9:6) as Jesus Christ. This article explores a...

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