True and False Prophets - Just and Honest Determination

[CG Didymus]

The issue was, and indeed still is, that Christians think they know Jesus Chrost better than God does, it is God that sends the Messengers.

I think it's more like... Christians think they know God and Jesus better than Muslims and Baha'is. And Muslims and Baha'is have a problem with some of the beliefs held by some Christians, mainly the one about the Trinity. But they all believe it is God that is informing them about the things that they believe.

 

[CG Didymus]

I can offer, that those statements, are very unhealthy for your spirit.

Regards Tony

If the Born Again Christians are right then you and a lot of us are doing things and believing things that are unhealthy for our spirit. If we don't believe like them, then we are lost and in sin.

The Baha'i Faith is very much a religion of "works". But those Christians teach that salvation comes through faith in Jesus. But not a token belief in Jesus. It is a belief that he died for your sins. Sins that you had no way of paying for yourself... That without Jesus, a person will die in their sins and is destined to go to hell.

Is that wrong? And, if so, how is it wrong?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

If the Born Again Christians are right then you and a lot of us are doing things and believing things that are unhealthy for our spirit. If we don't believe like them, then we are lost and in sin.

They got it wrong. What else should be said? My mother's and sisters, got it wrong.

Plain and simple, it happened just as Jesus said it would.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

So again, what did the Baha'i version of Jesus really accomplish?

“It is also recorded in the Gospel according to St. Luke, that on a certain day Jesus passed by a Jew who was sick of the palsy, and lay upon a couch. When the Jew saw Him, he recognized Him, and cried out for His help. Jesus said unto him: “Arise from thy bed; thy sins are forgiven thee.” Certain of the Jews, standing by, protested saying: “Who can forgive sins, but God alone?” And immediately He perceived their thoughts, Jesus answering said unto them: “Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, arise, and take up thy bed, and walk; or to say, thy sins are forgiven thee? that ye may know that the Son of Man hath power on earth to forgive sins.” 7 This is the real sovereignty, and such is the power of God’s chosen Ones!”
(The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 133-134)
Bahá'í Reference Library - The Kitáb-i-Íqán, Pages 121-160

 

[Trailblazer]

How and why would the Baha'i version of Jesus have done anything? Why would he even have qualified to have been the Jewish Messiah?

He didn't do the things that the Messiah was supposed to when he was here, but Christians believe he will do them when he returns. But Baha'is claim that Jesus is not going to return. So, Jesus, didn't fulfill the prophecies the first time and, since Baha'is don't believe he is coming back, he never will fulfill all of the Messianic prophecies.

Jesus was a Messiah, but Jesus was not qualified to be the Jewish Messiah, because He didn't do the things that the Messiah was supposed to when He was here, and He is not going to return and fulfill all of the Messianic prophecies that have already been fulfilled by the coming of Baha'u'llah.

 

[Brian2]

It was regarding the man with the iron rod that Jesus is talking about, which sounds like he is not talking about himself:

Because he doesn't say "I" or "me" as in referring to himself. And he doesn't say "they" as in the saints are going to be the rulers. So how can you say it seems that way. He specifically says "he" and "him" which seems to refer to an individual.

Here it is again.

You quote Rev 2:25-28 which is about the Church in Thyatira. Jesus is telling them what will be given to them if they are faithful. It is not about one person it is about anyone in the Church who is faithful. That may be none or one or everyone.
Rev 2:26 To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations— 27 that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’[b]—just as I have received authority from my Father. 28 I will also give that one the morning star.

Jesus is the only begotten Son of God. The begotten Son of God in Psalm 2 is Jesus, to whom God gives the nations as an inheritance and the Son rules them and according to Rev 2 25-28 and other verses, He gives rulership also to people in the Church.

So looking at the verse you were showing about the "king of kings" it can be seen as being about the man who rules with an iron rod:



But you are somehow saying it is Jesus. When the verse I showed you seems to say the man with the rod of iron is not Jesus. Because Jesus is not saying himself. So how can it be Jesus?

Rev 19:
11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war.
12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself.
13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.
14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.” He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty.
16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

The Word of God is Jesus. (John 1:1) So we can see that Rev 19:11-16 is about Jesus.
Jesus, the Son, is given all judgement by His Father and will return and raise the dead from their graves and judge them and will return also and judge the nations and their leaders for what they are doing.
John 5: 21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.
24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. 25 Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.
28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

Here is another Revelation verse about the man with a rod of iron:

"And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne".

Do you think that verse in Revelation is about Mary the mother of Jesus?

You quote part of Revelation 12:5-17. I think that the man child is Jesus and the woman is probably the faithful Jews from whom came Jesus. The remnant of her seed
might be those Christians whom Satan tries to destroy.

 

[Brian2]

If the Born Again Christians are right then you and a lot of us are doing things and believing things that are unhealthy for our spirit. If we don't believe like them, then we are lost and in sin.

The Baha'i Faith is very much a religion of "works". But those Christians teach that salvation comes through faith in Jesus. But not a token belief in Jesus. It is a belief that he died for your sins. Sins that you had no way of paying for yourself... That without Jesus, a person will die in their sins and is destined to go to hell.

Is that wrong? And, if so, how is it wrong?

I would say that the highlighted bit is wrong. I believe that Christians are saved through what Jesus did and avoid the judgement and that everyone else is going to be judged by Jesus, and that does not mean that they are destined to go to hell ( a place of eternal torment). We cannot preempt how Jesus is going to judge anyone.

 

[Brian2]

Jesus was a Messiah, but Jesus was not qualified to be the Jewish Messiah, because He didn't do the things that the Messiah was supposed to when He was here, and He is not going to return and fulfill all of the Messianic prophecies that have already been fulfilled by the coming of Baha'u'llah.

Tell me which things Baha'u'llah did when he was here.

 

[Trailblazer]

Tell me which things Baha'u'llah did when he was here.

As I have told you before, there are two kinds if prophecies, (1) the prophecies for the return of Christ/coming of the Messiah, and (2) the prophecies that will be fulfilled during the the messianic age. Since we are only about 172 years into the messianic age that will last no less than 1000 years, most of the messianic age prophecies have not been fulfilled yet.

So my statement was incorrect. I should have said the Messianic prophecies that will be fulfilled because of the coming of Baha'u'llah.

Another important point is that the messianic age prophecies were not slated to be fulfilled during the lifetime of the messiah.
The Bible prophecies do not specify when those prophecies will be fulfilled.

 

[Sumadji]

I can offer, that those statements, are very unhealthy for your spirit.

Regards Tony

Why? That's what the Quran says. So it's you who are denying the words of the Quran. But as always you will try to make the words mean something else.

Muhammad knew very little about Jesus

However, it would be the subject of another thread ....

 

[WonderingWorrier]

He gives rulership also to people in the Church.

So who says that? The church?

Jesus is the only begotten Son of God.

No that's not correct. According to the OT there is more than one Son of God. There are Sons of God and morning stars.

"When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy". Job.

He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.
14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.” He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty.
16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

The Word of God is Jesus. (John 1:1) So we can see that Rev 19:11-16 is about Jesus.

No. I can't see "the word of God" is Jesus and that is what makes Jesus into being the king of kings.

"Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him". Proverbs

I think that the man child is Jesus and the woman is probably the faithful Jews from whom came Jesus

So the man child needs be Jesus that rules with a rod of iron to be king of kings but it can't have the woman to be Mary mother of Jesus. So it becomes the "good" Jews which is as the mother Jesus came from. Thats a bit of a twist.

You quote Rev 2:25-28 which is about the Church in Thyatira.

I can show you something about Thyatira. Consider Jesus spoke of the church of the body and the words of God. And there is a specific word associated with Thyatira. Purple.

"And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul". Acts

That is in the way of the OT law of words. The Sons of God the Morning Stars are connected to Purple. Like according to the ways of the Brass, the Silver, and the Gold. And the Red, the Purple, and the Blue.

Its like this intermixing speech:
"Silver spread into plates is brought from Tarshish, and gold from Uphaz, the work of the workman, and of the hands of the founder: blue and purple is their clothing: they are all the work of cunning men". Jeremiah

According to the three colours:
And of the blue, and purple, and scarlet, they made cloths of service, to do service in the holy place, and made the holy garments for Aaron; as the Lord commanded Moses.

Together with the three metals:
To devise cunning works, to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass. Exodus

Purple has its place:

Red - Purple - Blue
Brass - Silver - Gold

I mentioned the place of the children of God earlier. The olive trees:

How do you know? You don't even know what a Son of God is. Because you don't know where to put the words. You could consider the evidence that I have shown and face facts. So consider being in line with what I told you before I will show you the children of God are as the olive trees and the wife of God is as the grape vine.

Here:

"Thy wife shall be as a fruitful vine by the sides of thine house: thy children like olive plants round about thy table". Psalm.

Children of God are in olive tree/oil position, and wife of God is in grape vine/wine position.


I can also show you in the vertical alignment of the word structure the word sheep is in the same placement as wine (and wife).

Bread - Oil - Wine
Corn - Olive - Grape
Field - Oliveyard - Vineyard
Sea - River - Stream
Valley - Hill - Mountain
Cattle - Goat - Sheep


So you can listen to this nonsense:
"Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready". Revelation.

And maybe you can hear the term "marriage of the lamb" makes perfect sense because the word wife is put with the word wine, where the word sheep is. It is simply a combination of some high level position words.

So just like the sets of three words the Red, the Purple, and the Blue and also the Brass, the Silver, and the Gold there are also Corn Fields, Oliveyards, and Vineyards. "And he will take your fields, and your vineyards, and your oliveyards, even the best of them, and give them to his servants". Samuel

As there are three different glories:
There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.


The purple and the star is in the same place as the olive tree:

Bread - Oil - Wine
Corn - Olive - Grape
Red - Purple - Blue
Brass - Silver - Gold
Moon - Star - Sun

Purple is in the middle of Red and Blue.

Every word of God is pure. The law is perfect.


There is an explanation for a rod of iron. The Bible mentions a rod of correction.

And the Bible mentions four different metals in the treasury of the Lord Brass, Silver, and Gold and the other being Iron. While the Bible also says the Earth is as iron and the heaven above the earth is as brass (then silver, then gold).

"And thy heaven that is over thy head shall be brass, and the earth that is under thee shall be iron".

It can therefore be determined:

Iron Rod = Earthly correction.

So the man with the iron rod will be of a specific heavenly position "Son of God, Morning Star, Purple, Olive tree, Oil) and will have Earthly correction (Rod of Iron).

 

[Brian2]

So who says that? The church?

I made a mistake when I said that the saints do not judge anyone. The Bible tells us differently.
1Cor 6:2 Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life!
So the Church takes part in the judgement.
This word for "judge" carries with it an element of having authority over, so the Church has also some authority over the world and angels.
Jesus said at Rev 2:26,27 as you have quoted that the church is going to have authority over the nations and rule them, and the iron scepter and the dashing them to pieces also indicates that this rule will include judging.
This will be given by Jesus just as He was given all judgement by His Father. (John 5)
Daniel 7:22 mentions the saints possessing the Kingdom. This would include reigning with Jesus. ( see Rev 20:4)
Luke 22:30 tells us that the apostles will judge Israel.
Jesus, in His parables, when speaking of rewards for servants, does mention ruling over cities (eg Luke 19:17)

No that's not correct. According to the OT there is more than one Son of God. There are Sons of God and morning stars.

"When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy". Job.

There are plenty of places where Jesus is called the only begotten Son.
There are created sons of God, angels and other spirits. There are those born again from God, adopted children of God.
Jesus is in a class of His own, the unique Son of God. There is more about the term "only begotten" in this short article.

What does it mean that Jesus is God’s only begotten son? | GotQuestions.org

What does it mean that Jesus is God’s only begotten son? What does the word begotten mean in the original Greek of the New Testament?

www.gotquestions.org

No. I can't see "the word of God" is Jesus and that is what makes Jesus into being the king of kings.

"Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him". Proverbs

"The Word" of John 1:1 is a person. This person is the one who is riding the white horse in Rev 19. We can see this because the passage tells us that His name is "The Word of God. (Rev 19:13) We can also see it because He is executing judgement and ruling over the nations. He is the Son of God of Psalm 2 who is given the nations and rules over them and judges them.

So the man child needs be Jesus that rules with a rod of iron to be king of kings but it can't have the woman to be Mary mother of Jesus. So it becomes the "good" Jews which is as the mother Jesus came from. Thats a bit of a twist.

Sounds right to me. I'm sure others have their own interpretation.

I can show you something about Thyatira. Consider Jesus spoke of the church of the body and the words of God. And there is a specific word associated with Thyatira. Purple.

"And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul". Acts

That is in the way of the OT law of words. The Sons of God the Morning Stars are connected to Purple. Like according to the ways of the Brass, the Silver, and the Gold. And the Red, the Purple, and the Blue.

Its like this intermixing speech:
"Silver spread into plates is brought from Tarshish, and gold from Uphaz, the work of the workman, and of the hands of the founder: blue and purple is their clothing: they are all the work of cunning men". Jeremiah

According to the three colours:
And of the blue, and purple, and scarlet, they made cloths of service, to do service in the holy place, and made the holy garments for Aaron; as the Lord commanded Moses.

Together with the three metals:
To devise cunning works, to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass. Exodus

Purple has its place:

Red - Purple - Blue
Brass - Silver - Gold

I mentioned the place of the children of God earlier. The olive trees:



So just like the sets of three words the Red, the Purple, and the Blue and also the Brass, the Silver, and the Gold there are also Corn Fields, Oliveyards, and Vineyards. "And he will take your fields, and your vineyards, and your oliveyards, even the best of them, and give them to his servants". Samuel

As there are three different glories:
There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.


The purple and the star is in the same place as the olive tree:

Bread - Oil - Wine
Corn - Olive - Grape
Red - Purple - Blue
Brass - Silver - Gold
Moon - Star - Sun

Purple is in the middle of Red and Blue.

Every word of God is pure. The law is perfect.


There is an explanation for a rod of iron. The Bible mentions a rod of correction.

And the Bible mentions four different metals in the treasury of the Lord Brass, Silver, and Gold and the other being Iron. While the Bible also says the Earth is as iron and the heaven above the earth is as brass (then silver, then gold).

"And thy heaven that is over thy head shall be brass, and the earth that is under thee shall be iron".

It can therefore be determined:

Iron Rod = Earthly correction.

So the man with the iron rod will be of a specific heavenly position "Son of God, Morning Star, Purple, Olive tree, Oil) and will have Earthly correction (Rod of Iron).

I don't understand what you are trying to tell me.

 

[Brian2]

As I have told you before, there are two kinds if prophecies, (1) the prophecies for the return of Christ/coming of the Messiah, and (2) the prophecies that will be fulfilled during the the messianic age. Since we are only about 172 years into the messianic age that will last no less than 1000 years, most of the messianic age prophecies have not been fulfilled yet.

If the meaning of the Biblical prophecies for the return of Christ/coming of the Messiah have to be denied or changed by Baha'u'llah how do you know that he fulfilled them?
If you say that the meanings have not been denied or changed, can you give an example.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I would say that the highlighted bit is wrong. I believe that Christians are saved through what Jesus did and avoid the judgement and that everyone else is going to be judged by Jesus, and that does not mean that they are destined to go to hell ( a place of eternal torment). We cannot preempt how Jesus is going to judge anyone.

It is a choice, not an inheritance. The inheritance is only awarded through actions and deeds. Picking up the cross after deciding to follow Jesus Christ.

Those that think they are saved by just a declaration of faith, are very, very mistaken.

This passage is applicable

Matthew 7:21-23

"I Never Knew You"

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Verse 23 applicable to I am saved by declaration of faith only.

Jesus Christ says depart from me to all such foundations of faith, not based in deeds and actions of righteousness.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

If the meaning of the Biblical prophecies for the return of Christ/coming of the Messiah have to be denied or changed by Baha'u'llah how do you know that he fulfilled them?
If you say that the meanings have not been denied or changed, can you give an example.

The meaning of the Biblical prophecies for the return of Christ/coming of the Messiah do not have to be denied or changed by Baha'u'llah.
If you say that the meanings have been denied or changed, can you give an example?

 

[CG Didymus]

It is a choice, not an inheritance. The inheritance is only awarded through actions and deeds. Picking up the cross after deciding to follow Jesus Christ.

Those that think they are saved by just a declaration of faith, are very, very mistaken.

This passage is applicable

Matthew 7:21-23

"I Never Knew You"

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Verse 23 applicable to I am saved by declaration of faith only.

Jesus Christ says depart from me to all such foundations of faith, not based in deeds and actions of righteousness.

Regards Tony

It is a little awkward, but that's what I believe the NT is saying. It is a person's faith and believe that Jesus is Lord that saves them. However, that belief and faith in him means that they follow his teachings.

Like what it says in James that a person needs to show his faith by their deeds. But does anyone live a perfect life after they've accepted Jesus? So, if the haven't repented of all their sins, then do they really totally and completely believe in Jesus?

But, regardless of the problems with the Born Again Christian doctrine of salvation through faith and not of works, I do think that their beliefs are supported by the NT... especially by Paul's writings. Now if a Baha'i has a problem with Paul, I can understand that. And if a Baha'i has a problem with the whole NT, I can understand that also. Because Jesus didn't write this stuff. Can we trust when his followers have said about him?

I would think that the only answer a Baha'i could give is "no". Since Baha'is don't believe so many things in the NT. But Baha'is don't. And that bothers me.

Baha'is say they believe in the virgin birth, but do they believe the Magi followed a star to Bethlehem? Do Baha'is believe Jesus walked on water and cast out demons? There some things that Baha'is can believe or not believe. But when it comes to a couple of big issues, it is a definite "no:.

One of them is being born in sin or having inherited a sin nature all because, supposedly Adam disobeyed God and ate of the forbidden fruit.

That's a necessary belief for Christians that believe Jesus is the only one that can save us from the penalty from that. If that's not true, then the Christian doctrine falls apart. And I think the Baha'i Faith does that.

The other big one is the resurrection. To me it is clearly taught in the NT. But Baha'is say it didn't happen.

Those two are enough, but I'll bet there's other things that Baha'is definitely say are wrong in the teachings of the NT.

And, even though, Baha'is don't say it out loud, I believe what the Baha'i Faith is essentially saying... is that the NT isn't correct. And what is remarkably cowardly is that Baha'is say, "no", that Baha'is "love" the Bible and the NT and believe in it. But only enough to use it to try and prove your prophet was mentioned and prophesied about within its pages.

And this was quoted by TB...

“It is also recorded in the Gospel according to St. Luke, that on a certain day Jesus passed by a Jew who was sick of the palsy, and lay upon a couch. When the Jew saw Him, he recognized Him, and cried out for His help. Jesus said unto him: “Arise from thy bed; thy sins are forgiven thee.” Certain of the Jews, standing by, protested saying: “Who can forgive sins, but God alone?” And immediately He perceived their thoughts, Jesus answering said unto them: “Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, arise, and take up thy bed, and walk; or to say, thy sins are forgiven thee? that ye may know that the Son of Man hath power on earth to forgive sins.” 7 This is the real sovereignty, and such is the power of God’s chosen Ones!”​

(The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 133-134)​

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Kitáb-i-Íqán, Pages 121-160​

​

This doesn't work at all. Who, other than Jesus claimed they had the power to forgive sins? This is a Christian thing. It's not a belief held by Jews, so I don't that it's supported in the Hebrew Bible. Is it in the Quran? Could Muhammad forgive sins? How about Abraham? Or Moses?

And if they didn't and couldn't, then it is Baha'u'llah making up a false teaching to get around the Christian teaching that Jesus did have that kind of power.

But I think he has other false teaching. The main one being "progressive" revelation. Sound so good... almost. But when I look close, I don't see that it is true. I see everybody, every people in every place on Earth had their own religions and their own Gods. One God sending his special creations, the "manifestations", isn't what was happening. The inconsistency of beliefs doesn't support it.

Yeah, yeah, I know that Baha'is claim that people changed the mysterious, no where to be found "original" teachings, but I think that easier way to explain things is to say that people made it all up from the start. There were no manifestations bringing some supposed "true" message that then got distorted and corrupted.

 

[Trailblazer]

Now if a Baha'i has a problem with Paul, I can understand that. And if a Baha'i has a problem with the whole NT, I can understand that also. Because Jesus didn't write this stuff. Can we trust when his followers have said about him?

I would think that the only answer a Baha'i could give is "no". Since Baha'is don't believe so many things in the NT. But Baha'is don't. And that bothers me.

I would say no, we cannot trust everything that his followers have said about him, but that doesn't mean that none of it is true.
Since I believe the Baha'i Writings are true, I am going to use the Baha'i Writings as a gauge to measure what in the NT is true and what is false.

And, even though, Baha'is don't say it out loud, I believe what the Baha'i Faith is essentially saying... is that the NT isn't correct. And what is remarkably cowardly is that Baha'is say, "no", that Baha'is "love" the Bible and the NT and believe in it.

I believe it is dishonest for Baha'is to say they believe in the NT, since certain parts of the NT have to be false if the Baha'i Faith is true.
Some Baha'is say they love the Bible because Abdu'l-Baha said that the Bible is God's holy book...

However...

When 'Abdu'l-Bahá states we believe what is in the Bible, He means in substance. Not that we believe every word of it to be taken literally or that every word is the authentic saying of the Prophet.
Bible | Bahá'í Quotes

And this was quoted by TB...

“It is also recorded in the Gospel according to St. Luke, that on a certain day Jesus passed by a Jew who was sick of the palsy, and lay upon a couch. When the Jew saw Him, he recognized Him, and cried out for His help. Jesus said unto him: “Arise from thy bed; thy sins are forgiven thee.” Certain of the Jews, standing by, protested saying: “Who can forgive sins, but God alone?” And immediately He perceived their thoughts, Jesus answering said unto them: “Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, arise, and take up thy bed, and walk; or to say, thy sins are forgiven thee? that ye may know that the Son of Man hath power on earth to forgive sins.” 7 This is the real sovereignty, and such is the power of God’s chosen Ones!”​

(The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 133-134)​

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Kitáb-i-Íqán, Pages 121-160​

​

This doesn't work at all. Who, other than Jesus claimed they had the power to forgive sins? This is a Christian thing. It's not a belief held by Jews, so I don't that it's supported in the Hebrew Bible. Is it in the Quran? Could Muhammad forgive sins? How about Abraham? Or Moses?

And if they didn't and couldn't, then it is Baha'u'llah making up a false teaching to get around the Christian teaching that Jesus did have that kind of power.

Baha'u'llah was not making up a false teaching to get around the Christian teaching that Jesus did have the power for forgive sins.
Baha'u'llah taught that Jesus had the power to forgive sins, so that is a Baha'i belief.

But I think he has other false teaching. The main one being "progressive" revelation. Sound so good... almost. But when I look close, I don't see that it is true. I see everybody, every people in every place on Earth had their own religions and their own Gods. One God sending his special creations, the "manifestations", isn't what was happening. The inconsistency of beliefs doesn't support it.

It is true that everybody, every people in every place on Earth had their own religions and their own Gods, but that in no way precludes One God sending his special creations, the "manifestations." BOTH of those can be true. The inconsistency of beliefs only shows that most people do not recognize any manifestation of God except the one they already believe in.

 

[Brian2]

It is a choice, not an inheritance. The inheritance is only awarded through actions and deeds. Picking up the cross after deciding to follow Jesus Christ.

Those that think they are saved by just a declaration of faith, are very, very mistaken.

This passage is applicable

Matthew 7:21-23

"I Never Knew You"

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Verse 23 applicable to I am saved by declaration of faith only.

Jesus Christ says depart from me to all such foundations of faith, not based in deeds and actions of righteousness.

Regards Tony

Faith needs to be accompanied by works of righteousness true.
A head belief that is not lived out in our life is not the sort of faith that Jesus wants.
Faith works through love.
Galatians 5:6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. All that matters is faith, expressed through love.

 

[Brian2]

The meaning of the Biblical prophecies for the return of Christ/coming of the Messiah do not have to be denied or changed by Baha'u'llah.
If you say that the meanings have been denied or changed, can you give an example?

Yes of course I can give an example, can you.
Acts 1:9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.
10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes of course I can give an example, can you.
Acts 1:9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.
10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

The meaning of Acts 1:9-11 does not have to be been denied or changed, it says what it says and means what it means.
I stopped trying to interpret it differently a long time ago. I came to realize that it is simply a belief and hope of the author, but it certainly did not come from Jesus so there is no reason to believe it is ever going to happen, especially because Jesus said that he was no more in the world.

I can give you can example of verses that need to be denied or changed by Christians in order to maintain the Jesus is going to return and build a kingdom on earth..

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.