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True Muslims: Sunni vs Shia
- Thread starter gnostic
- Start date
Starsoul
Truth
Its amazing to make an ignorant statement like this and make oneself look so un-informed, for one you just repeated the false propaganda you seem to have been fed through your uninformed clerics about anyone who is not a shia.
Exalting the kings? obeying the tyrants,?? Please, give us a break, you just lost the last bit of credence you claimed as a knowledgeable person, it really is sad not to know your opponent as well as you profess to.
And for the record the sunnis/salafis/or so called wahabis do not glorify the companions like the shia glorify the companion Hazrat Ali and his family, to the extent of taking his name in place of ALlah whenever they need help( personal observation, they assert on this, and on the rituals for the imams, sending glories and praises for them all, by saying that we take islam forward by adding rituals to it, please thats like saying that islam was not declared in totality as is said in the Quran). The muslims respect ALL the companions the same! But thats quite hard to swallow by some shia because ethnicity is more important to them than character.
Also, none of these proposed groups (which do not classify as such, as distinctively as you make them out to be) consider The companions Hazrat Umar ra , Uthman ra, ABu bakar ra; infallible, like the shias consider their imams to be. Where have you been getting all your information from? not surprising that its ridiculously delusive and assumed.
Read your own history for starters and see how many shia rituals have taken their roots from the fire worshipping persians, you will never find one example of such rituals practised by the Prophet Muhammad saww (pbuh). About time you thought who you're really following, the Prophet or some misguided ayatollah's who support a sect based on hate. Cause the companion Ali ra never waged war against the other companions, nor did the other spoke against him. They were far more concerned about muslim unity than dividing over petty differences.
If they had differences, it is not for us to decide between them, they were all pious people, it is only for Allah swt to decide between them, not us. I see no point of taking a non existing feud over centuries and then justifying all the killing in the name of the imams, sects are not encouraged in the Quran, so there is no reason to blow one's feathers over it. MAy Allah guide us all, it is guidance that we should seek sincerely, not the power.
I know that the Wahabi @Muslim- may have succeeded in dragging me to say things things that should not have said, and to respond in an inappropriate way...
I'll not reply to all of your post, as you too have been brought into this unhealthy debate.
But to show you that I am not what you have described, I'll reply to your first point... I was referring to the famous Sunni Narration:
Hudhayfa bin al-Yaman narrated a hadith in which he said:
يَكُونُ بَعْدِي أَئِمَّةٌ لاَ يَهْتَدُونَ بِهُدَايَ، وَلاَ يَسْتَنُّونَ بِسُنَّتِي، وَسَيَقُومُ فِيهِمْ رِجَالٌ قُلُوبُهُمْ قُلُوبُ الشَّيَاطِينِ فِي جُثْمَانِ إنْسٍ".
قَالَ: قُلْتُ: كَيْفَ أَصْنَعُ؟ يَا رَسُولَ اللهِ إِنْ أَدْرَكْتُ ذَلِكَ؟ قَالَ: تَسْمَعُ وَتُطِيعُ لِلأَمِيرِ، وَإِنْ ضُرِبَ ظَهْرُكَ، وَأُخِذَ مَالُكَ، فَاسْمَعْ وَأَطعْ
Starsoul
Truth
I am not sure about this hadith,will have to check its authenticity, but the way you wound up every sinner into a sunni-wahabi-salafi cloak is astounding and unacceptable, and I must say that is the stereotypical statement that comes from the mouth of every shia that you come across. They assign all evil in the world to everybody who is different than them, how can you attest to that so casually?
To the extent that you normally hear syed shia say that they are the only heirs of Jannah and there will be no hell fire for them, and then see the same people drinking womanizing and doing all evil, where is the ISlam in that? Just in being that" race" ? Race has no value in the eyes of Allah swt, if that was so why would the Prophet's own Uncle Abu lahab was cursed to Hell by Allah swt? Anyhow, I dont mean to go into all this, but I would really appreciate if shia people re-read their beliefs with an open mind, and atleast stop saying ya mola Ali everytime they need help. I'm sure all dont do that, but those who do, dont they even feel a tad bit weird about it, do they really think he is alive and he helps them? What is the difference between going to dead pirs to ask for help then? HAzrat ALi, no doubt was a great noble muslim, there are great lessons to be learnt from his life and his wisdom, but praying for his help??Do the wahabis or all the other people that you talk of, glorify the COmpanions; Umar ra, Uthman ra and Abu bakar ra, do we take their names to get us help?, offer them rituals, Nazars and sacrifices? Nobody does that, then why do you feel that the 'others' do not enjoin the real Islam (shia Islam), which even ALi ra did not follow, but it came after him, in the form of shiasm, and even he did not attest to it?or did all the rituals that shias do.
I do not intend to be in appropriate , at all, but talking about real facts should be easier than that. Its just like yousaf Estes said that Only shias seem to have a perception of a group called wahabis, nobody even even knows who they really are or what are their beliefs. If you go to saudi arabia and ask people if they are wahabi, they will look at you as if you're an alien, please stop propagating wahabism when it doesnt even exist, by that name or as an organized movement as such atleast as you have imagined.
To be honest, shias are way more well organized and propagative of their literature than the rest. I've met many saudis and arabs and they have really good tauheed and risalat concepts, if you meet people who dont have those concepts, they come from all circles, including shias, not only non shias.
True that there are differences between how they view tauheed and how shias view tauheed, but its amazing that when the biggest Imam of shias was sent a book of the man abdul wahab, who'd just written several books, one book being on the subject of tauheed, the shia Imam(sheikh) was all praise of the book and recommended that book as one of the best books he'd read on that subject, but he was not told who the writer was. And as soon as he was told the writer was abdul wahab, he went "astaghfirullah astaghfirullah". Bias much?
We should all focus on being good muslims, as long you seek the true guidance, you will always get it, no need of getting into feuds, but we all do have a responsibility to learn as much as we can about the Quran and sunnah, the closer you go it, the minimal the differences will seem , InshAllah.
best,
To the extent that you normally hear syed shia say that they are the only heirs of Jannah and there will be no hell fire for them, and then see the same people drinking womanizing and doing all evil, where is the ISlam in that? Just in being that" race" ? Race has no value in the eyes of Allah swt, if that was so why would the Prophet's own Uncle Abu lahab was cursed to Hell by Allah swt? Anyhow, I dont mean to go into all this, but I would really appreciate if shia people re-read their beliefs with an open mind, and atleast stop saying ya mola Ali everytime they need help. I'm sure all dont do that, but those who do, dont they even feel a tad bit weird about it, do they really think he is alive and he helps them? What is the difference between going to dead pirs to ask for help then? HAzrat ALi, no doubt was a great noble muslim, there are great lessons to be learnt from his life and his wisdom, but praying for his help??Do the wahabis or all the other people that you talk of, glorify the COmpanions; Umar ra, Uthman ra and Abu bakar ra, do we take their names to get us help?, offer them rituals, Nazars and sacrifices? Nobody does that, then why do you feel that the 'others' do not enjoin the real Islam (shia Islam), which even ALi ra did not follow, but it came after him, in the form of shiasm, and even he did not attest to it?or did all the rituals that shias do.
I do not intend to be in appropriate , at all, but talking about real facts should be easier than that. Its just like yousaf Estes said that Only shias seem to have a perception of a group called wahabis, nobody even even knows who they really are or what are their beliefs. If you go to saudi arabia and ask people if they are wahabi, they will look at you as if you're an alien, please stop propagating wahabism when it doesnt even exist, by that name or as an organized movement as such atleast as you have imagined.
To be honest, shias are way more well organized and propagative of their literature than the rest. I've met many saudis and arabs and they have really good tauheed and risalat concepts, if you meet people who dont have those concepts, they come from all circles, including shias, not only non shias.
True that there are differences between how they view tauheed and how shias view tauheed, but its amazing that when the biggest Imam of shias was sent a book of the man abdul wahab, who'd just written several books, one book being on the subject of tauheed, the shia Imam(sheikh) was all praise of the book and recommended that book as one of the best books he'd read on that subject, but he was not told who the writer was. And as soon as he was told the writer was abdul wahab, he went "astaghfirullah astaghfirullah". Bias much?
We should all focus on being good muslims, as long you seek the true guidance, you will always get it, no need of getting into feuds, but we all do have a responsibility to learn as much as we can about the Quran and sunnah, the closer you go it, the minimal the differences will seem , InshAllah.
best,
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with respect,
your post revolves around three major themes, intercession (Tawwsul), innovations (Bid'a) , and Monotheism (Tauheed).
The post also includes many misstatements about Shiasm, in addition to denying the existence of the Wahhabi sect.
Let me start with the last point.
Whether Wahabism is part of Sunnism can be judge by examining their literature. And Let me say that the founder of Wahabism, Mohammed bin Abdul wahhab, and his God Father Ibn Taymiyya believe that Allah has a body and measurements...So Talking about Tauheed in Wahabism, is like talking about pilgrimage in atheism.
As for intercession (Tawwsul), innovations (Bid'a), both Sunnis and Shias have researched these subject extensively, and clarified the definitions of these concept and the applications of them. That is why both Sunnis and Shia's have Shrines of pious and holy people, and they both celebrate the birthday of the prophet SAAW, which is prohibited by the Wahabis. Indeed, Whahabis tried to demolish the Shrine of prophet Muhammad SAAW, but was faced with a strife opposition from the Muslims.
If you want my advice, your life in the hereafter should be what concerns you most. You wont lose anything by spending some hours researching the final days of prophet Muhammad (SAAW), and whether he has appointed Ali (by a command from Allah), as his successor, as shia argue, or not. This is the one main question that will show the answers of all the remaining ones.
ohhcuppycakee
Active Member
Every Shi'a? Really?
gnostic
The Lost One
Sorry, if I haven't taken much part in this thread, but the exchanges about Sunni and Shia, between some of the members, have left me baffled. Clearly, I don't understand the differences between Sunni and Shiite, and may never be able to understand because I don't live in any country among them.
ohhcuppycakee
Active Member
Even the people who live among Sunni and Shi'a don't understand.
jamaesi
To Save A Lamb
Seriously.
I think this thread is just the Wahhabis being Wahhabi and the Shi'a being understandably upset. Wahhabis don't just single Shi'a out for abuse, so don't think this is a Sunni vs Shi'a thing. More like Wahhabi vs Everyone.
