Trump and McCain - what is a "war hero"?

[Revoltingest]

An acquaintance is a VN War vet.
But what impressed me was that when he worked at a gas station, he was robbed.
Using a sawed off shotgun, he killed the robber.
It turned out that the perp was carrying the handgun of a cop he killed.
And he (the perp, not my acquaintance) had just gotten out of prison where he killed 2 guards.
This was some time ago.

 

[Deathbydefault]

My dad....

He told me his story.
He crawled out into the field to retrieve a wounded.....under fire.
No one else would go.

I believe him.
I could see it in his eyes.
must have scared him.

no medal....

The award he would have gotten is a purple heart I believe (correct me if I'm wrong).
It's strange how many of the people who do something worth mentioning never get mentioned.

My grandpa was marksman in Vietnam, he was assigned to guard higher rank military officers.
I believe he had 9 confirmed kills, but he said that he ended up saving a couple of his buddies.
I trust what he says, because he obviously had PTSD and it triggered at somewhat strange times.

Did your father also suffer from PTSD?

 

[Marisa]

The award he would have gotten is a purple heart I believe (correct me if I'm wrong).
It's strange how many of the people who do something worth mentioning never get mentioned.

My grandpa was marksman in Vietnam, he was assigned to guard higher rank military officers.
I believe he had 9 confirmed kills, but he said that he ended up saving a couple of his buddies.
I trust what he says, because he obviously had PTSD and it triggered at somewhat strange times.

Did your father also suffer from PTSD?

No I think the appropriate award would be the bronze star. The purple heart is for those who were wounded.
Bronze Star Medal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Purple Heart - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Thief]

The award he would have gotten is a purple heart I believe (correct me if I'm wrong).
It's strange how many of the people who do something worth mentioning never get mentioned.

My grandpa was marksman in Vietnam, he was assigned to guard higher rank military officers.
I believe he had 9 confirmed kills, but he said that he ended up saving a couple of his buddies.
I trust what he says, because he obviously had PTSD and it triggered at somewhat strange times.

Did your father also suffer from PTSD?

He seemed able to contain everything.
Even in anger he could stay his hand.

 

[Deathbydefault]

He seemed able to contain everything.
Even in anger he could stay his hand.

Ah, well at least he escaped that.
It most certainly didn't seem like an enjoyable experience.

 

[Quetzal]

I don't particularly subscribe to the idea that you are a hero just because you enlisted. I am skeptical of people who proclaim that they should be held to a higher caliber just because they are in the armed forces. With that said, I am surprised and question Trump's political strategy here. I am not sure what he was trying to accomplish or to what end he made that statement.

 

[Marisa]

I don't particularly subscribe to the idea that you are a hero just because you enlisted. I am skeptical of people who proclaim that they should be held to a higher caliber just because they are in the armed forces. With that said, I am surprised and question Trump's political strategy here. I am not sure what he was trying to accomplish or to what end he made that statement.

I think Trump says what he thinks. And that's the problem for me, what he thinks is patently horrifying. Considering how we're taught to deify the military in the US, it's no great wonder that this comment has the feces spraying all around the room having hit the fan. And yet, The Donald still thinks everybody loves him. Campaigning for the GOP nomination may well test the limits of a narcissists ability to believe his own propaganda.

Interestingly, after he screwed himself with the war hero thing, he went on to answer the question of whether he'd ever asked god for forgiveness for anything.

Unsurprisingly, he said no.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

To me, the only heroes in war are those who sacrifice themselves to protect and save their comrades. There is nothing heroic about war, there is nothing heroic about killing, but the one who would sacrifice themselves so many can return home are very worthy of mention and praise.

I personally think it's pathetic the way military service members are deified in our society, it makes me uncomfortable as hell given our recent foreign policy history.

I personally have never understood why we are supposed to thank the troops. Thank them for what? Being taken advantage of by a government who tends to be an internationally bully and throw its weight around? Thank them for seeing horrors and experiencing hells so severe it really screws them up psychologically? Thanking them for potentially taking or taking bullets for politicians and corporations who desire the benefits of expanding and maintaining American global hegemony? Thank them because our government so very often creates the mess they fight against?
If anything, we should apologize for being terrible citizens who allow such corrupt politicians to run the nation, corrupt politicians who have a tendency to abuse the military.

At the same time, I think it's hilarious that many conservatives seem to think if you're liberal, you aren't qualified for office without a military service record but if you're conservative, meh, it's not the be all end all.

I find it peculiar that so many of those conservatives are some of the first ones to push for war, yet they themselves have never served or seen war.

 

[Adramelek]

Donald Trump might have bad hair. But I do hail, Trump! The anti-politician! He is financing his own campaign, he is not concerned about media perception or the Republican establishment perception of himself or his policies. He seems to move forward in accordance with his own mind and will. A good test of Trump's knowledge and fortitude will be in the first debates.

 

[Iti oj]

To me, the only heroes in war are those who sacrifice themselves to protect and save their comrades. There is nothing heroic about war, there is nothing heroic about killing, but the one who would sacrifice themselves so many can return home are very worthy of mention and praise.

I personally have never understood why we are supposed to thank the troops. Thank them for what? Being taken advantage of by a government who tends to be an internationally bully and throw its weight around? Thank them for seeing horrors and experiencing hells so severe it really screws them up psychologically? Thanking them for potentially taking or taking bullets for politicians and corporations who desire the benefits of expanding and maintaining American global hegemony? Thank them because our government so very often creates the mess they fight against?
If anything, we should apologize for being terrible citizens who allow such corrupt politicians to run the nation, corrupt politicians who have a tendency to abuse the military.

I find it peculiar that so many of those conservatives are some of the first ones to push for war, yet they themselves have never served or seen war.

yeah... and when I say hey are victims not heros I get lots and lots of hate...its strange people have no problem demonizing these wars yet still use them to justify they idea soldiers are heros...


Are ww2 vets heros? That's the last "justifiable" war

 

[Shadow Wolf]

yeah... and when I say hey are victims not heros I get lots and lots of hate...its strange people have no problem demonizing these wars yet still use them to justify they idea soldiers are heros...

I get that as well. It's as if people are unable to connect the dots and realize that decades of military intervention have only made things worse, have strengthened Islamic extremists, and has done absolutely nothing but make it so another generation of troops will be fighting in the Middle East.

 

[Wirey]

John McCain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

From the Forrestal fire section:

On July 29, 1967, McCain, by then a lieutenant commander, was near the epicenter of the USS Forrestal fire. He escaped from his burning jet and was trying to help another pilot escape when a bomb exploded;[28] McCain was struck in the legs and chest by fragments.[29] The ensuing fire killed 134 sailors and took 24 hours to control.[30][31] With the Forrestal out of commission, McCain volunteered for assignment with the USS Oriskany, another aircraft carrier employed in Operation Rolling Thunder.[32] Once there, he would be awarded the Navy Commendation Medal and the Bronze Star for missions flown over North Vietnam.

Hero in my book.

 

[Wirey]

I get that as well. It's as if people are unable to connect the dots and realize that decades of military intervention have only made things worse, have strengthened Islamic extremists, and has done absolutely nothing but make it so another generation of troops will be fighting in the Middle East.

That's politics. If a guy in Iraq risked his own life to save children (which happened), because he was a soldier he's not a hero?

 

[leibowde84]

Don't have a personal opinion on this as I do not use the title "hero" outside of fictional situations.
Much of my family has seen war, many suffered from the aftermath.
My favorite grandfather would say, "the guys who kill the most enemies".
My uncles would probably say, "the people that risked their lives to save others, especially if they didn't have to".

So take it or leave it.
I agree with my grandfather mostly, war at it's core is about subduing your enemy efficiently and for a purpose.
So those who are the most efficient killers are those that close the time gap for the wars end.
I suppose you don't have to kill the enemy to win, but it is easier and has less side-effects than letting them live.

Then you probably should see him as a hero. McCain refused the offer of early release offered only because his father was high ranking. It was clear that the NV were using it as propaganda and it was against Military law, so he refused. That is ****** beyond belief, imho.

That being said, I think McCain is a horrible politician. But, it should be blatantly aparent that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. Unless McCain commits treason or sonething, anyone who tries to take his service away from him is not mentally fit to be president. Anyone who risks their lives for crappy pay and treatment deserves to be seen as a hero. McCain is way above that status.

 

[Quetzal]

Donald Trump might have bad hair. But I do hail, Trump! The anti-politician! He is financing his own campaign, he is not concerned about media perception or the Republican establishment perception of himself or his policies. He seems to move forward in accordance with his own mind and will. A good test of Trump's knowledge and fortitude will be in the first debates.

I still hold the opinion he would make a terrible president.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That's politics. If a guy in Iraq risked his own life to save children (which happened), because he was a soldier he's not a hero?

That's not what I said; rather it's opposite of what I first said in this thread.

 

[Deathbydefault]

Then you probably should see him as a hero. McCain refused the offer of early release offered only because his father was high ranking. It was clear that the NV were using it as propaganda and it was against Military law, so he refused. That is ****** beyond belief, imho.

That being said, I think McCain is a horrible politician. But, it should be blatantly aparent that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. Unless McCain commits treason or sonething, anyone who tries to take his service away from him is not mentally fit to be president. Anyone who risks their lives for crappy pay and treatment deserves to be seen as a hero. McCain is way above that status.

I do not have such subjective abilities to praise someone in this way, but I do agree with you, I suppose.
He has done more than enough to earn such respect, and he is indeed a horrible politician.

 

[Neo Deist]

But, what is a war hero as defined by you? Is there such a thing? And if so, what are the qualifications?

Just because you are captured does not make you a war hero. It is your actions while in captivity that define the term "hero." The movie "Hart's War" comes to mind. The POWs dug a tunnel not to escape, but to destroy a German munitions factory.

As far as who I would consider a war hero, the very top of that list has to be Audie Murphy. If you do not know who he is, look him up. He was the most decorated combat vet of WWII and quite possibly in US history. Interestingly enough he was turned down by the Marines and the Navy before joining the Army. They said he was "too small." What are his feats:

He single handedly held off an entire German company for over an hour (Colmar Pocket, France). He stood on the back of a burning tank firing a .50 caliber machine gun, fired his M1 rifle and directed artillery fire via radio.

Near Ramatuelle, France he advanced on an occupied house full of Germans, ALONE, while being fired at. He wounded 2, killed 6 and took 11 prisoner.

At L'Omet, France, he crawled ALONE (again) with a radio and called in artillery strikes against the Germans, giving intel on their positions and giving corrections based on where the shells hit, all while being shot at. At the end of the siege, 15 Germans had been killed and 35 wounded.

Near Brouvelieures, France, he was shot in the hip by a German sniper. Murphy, a country boy who grew up shooting and hunting, returned fire, hitting the sniper between the eyes.

Over the course of the war, Audie Murphy was wounded multiple times but refused to quit.

He started as a Private and through battlefield commissions, retired as a Major. At the age of 19, he won the Medal of Honor.

His awards are long and distinguished. You can read about them here: Audie Murphy honors and awards - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That is a war hero.

 

[Valjean]

A hero is one who chooses to perform a dangerous or onerous altruistic act when an honorable but less onerous course is open to him.

McCain did not choose to be captured or imprisoned. His imprisonment, though onerous, wasn't altruistic, and he had no honorable alternative course of action open to him.
He was not a hero.

True, he suffered imprisonment and torture while in government employ, but this does not qualify as heroism.

 

[ShivaFan]

Right now, the more photos released of Hillary the hag in the news, the more she slumps in the polls, today we find her way behind three top Republican presidential candidates in head-to-head matchups in Colorado, Iowa and Virginia, in the Quinnipiac University swing state polling released Wednesday and published this morning, where she is losing to the Republicans by an average of 7 points.

People like Trump's beaver on his head better than Hillary's hanging haggard face and bowling pin figure, and they like her policies and her history of corruption, failure and lies and scandal even less, she is going to lose the election if she gets the nomination instead of Bernie.

Even Republicans "admire" Bernie more than Hillary, however now a release of Bernie's 1987 CD singing "This Land is Your Land" (the old folk song) has hit the media cycle after someone took notice of it being played from a boom box at a Sander's rally, and it is so horrible that it threatens destroying his chances of getting the nomination, many are demanding that Bernie apologize to Americans for destroying a folk standard, and somehow it was played at a Cleveland retirement center where the "inmates" went into violent attacks in reaction to being "tortured".

Will the phony campaign by the liberal media, Mexican drug lords, the few Jeb Bush and WSJ amnesty supporters at FOX, the orchestrated "outrage" by the Jeb Bush, Rick Perry and Lindsey Graham 2016 campaigns destroy Trump's surge?

I guess we will find out Friday or next Tuesday when FOX releases their latest poll, but my gut is we will see only a minor dip then a rebound. No one cares about McCain's "hero" status, they only care about his lousy voting record, his lack of true reform efforts to help vets, his nutty attempts to get us in a war with Russia, his constant advocacy for amnesty for criminal aliens, and really Trump's statement about McCain being a "war hero" only because McCain was captured isn't a big deal to Republicans. Trump will only be hurt if Republicans think that Trump would lose to Hillary, they don't care otherwise, but the fact is there is a rebellion going on against the Republican "leadership" which is seen as spineless by the voting Republican base, the base is what counts, they will decide, and Trump is seen as the rebel against this "leadership" and will likely continue to be in the top tier.

I like Trump, I am dumping Perry. The base does not like Jeb. Don't be fooled, this fighting is all going to help the Republicans, and tomorrow Trump heads for the border. More fun and excitement to come. McCain is seen as a nutjob by the base, so I don't think this is going to hurt Trump in the end.