Trump has a Bully's Sense of Humor...

[Revoltingest]

A red herring is a red herring regardless of how popular it is.

Except when it isn't.

Have you actually thought through the implications of your statement?

Yes.

If we take your statement to its logical conclusion, we must assert that Stalin cannot be properly assessed without first considering Churchill. But on what reasonable grounds can anyone assert such an absurdity?

This scenario differs because we don't face a choice between voting for either Stalin & Churchill,
so there's no need to evaluate one relative to the other, interesting though that might be.
But regarding Trump, the likely winners will be either him, Hillary, or Bernie.
To list reasons for voting against one is by itself incomplete.
To compare their advantages & disadvantages is useful.
Someone brought it up (without objection), so I responded.

We notice that over in.....
Show your support for Trump!
....this thread has posters elaborating both on why they favor and why they oppose him, & comparing him with the competition.
Far from being red herrings, these significantly related issues strengthen the conversation.

But it is your thread.
I'll consider only Trump hereafter.

 

[vaguelyhumanoid]

And that is exactly how it has worked in many instances.

That's certainly not what I see when I look at the US criminal justice system. When America was founded, only landowning white males could vote. The concessions that have been made have came about because of people on the ground level refusing to put up with oppression. It's easy to look at the labor regulations, etc. that we have today and make assumptions but how did we get there? Because working people fought - often physically fought and died - against powerful corporate interests that were often backed by the state. Look at Stonewall for another example - gay rights didn't start with people calmly petitioning their senators, it started with a riot.

 

[Spiderman]

There is a threat coming from Muslims that is worldwide. I was born in 1987, so nearly all of the violence and terrorism that I have seen in my lifetime committed in the name of God was done by Muslims.

The lifestyle of the Prophet Muhammad was one of polygamy, cutting off heads, pedophilia, pillaging, looting, and depriving people of freedom, so it was completely everything America stands against. Most moslems are for Sharia law, which is very much part of Islam ,and is very anti-American as well.

They exalt as a prophet of God , somebody whose views and policies were very anti-American, and about as far anti-American as one can get (despite America not existing at that time, but you know what I mean).

We have every reason to be highly suspicious of Muslims and single them out, not because most of them are bad people, but because they exalt such a figure , and there is also a threat that is coming from them that is not coming from others in the same degree.

Donald Trump is actually using common sense on keeping a nation safe in regard to his singling Muslims out.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It's easy to look at the labor regulations, etc. that we have today and make assumptions but how did we get there? Because working people fought - often physically fought and died - against powerful corporate interests that were often backed by the state. Look at Stonewall for another example - gay rights didn't start with people calmly petitioning their senators, it started with a riot.

I don't recall people going to war over women's suffrage, the end of Jim Crow laws, gay marriage, or other things. There was Stonewall, but many states either explicitly prohibited or were working towards banning gay marriage until the Supreme Court ruled it valid and legal in all 50 states.

 

[Sunstone]

There is a threat coming from Muslims that is worldwide. I was born in 1987, so nearly all of the violence and terrorism that I have seen in my lifetime committed in the name of God was done by Muslims.

The lifestyle of the Prophet Muhammad was one of polygamy, cutting off heads, pedophilia, pillaging, looting, and depriving people of freedom, so it was completely everything America stands against. Most moslems are for Sharia law, which is very much part of Islam ,and is very anti-American as well.

They exalt as a prophet of God , somebody whose views and policies were very anti-American, and about as far anti-American as one can get (despite America not existing at that time, but you know what I mean).

We have every reason to be highly suspicious of Muslims and single them out, not because most of them are bad people, but because they exalt such a figure , and there is also a threat that is coming from them that is not coming from others in the same degree.

Donald Trump is actually using common sense on keeping a nation safe in regard to his singling Muslims out.

Donald? Donald Trump? Is that you?

 

[Spiderman]

Donald? Donald Trump? Is that you?

Guilty

 

[Shadow Wolf]

There is a threat coming from Muslims that is worldwide. I was born in 1987, so nearly all of the violence and terrorism that I have seen in my lifetime committed in the name of God was done by Muslims.

Then you have seen McVeigh, Columbine, Jonesboro, abortion clinic bombings, Theodore Kycinsky, Branch Davidians, Heaven's Gate, and even many Christian groups committing terrorism. Things like "Jihad" and "Muslim Terrorist" didn't even exist in the American conscious until 9/11.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

They exalt as a prophet of God , somebody whose views and policies were very anti-American, and about as far anti-American as one can get (despite America not existing at that time, but you know what I mean).

Look at Christianity. The Bible is extremely violent, horribly repressive, rampantly misogynist, and itself promotes policies that are counter to American and Western values.

 

[Spiderman]

Then you have seen McVeigh, Columbine, Jonesboro, abortion clinic bombings, Theodore Kycinsky, Branch Davidians, Heaven's Gate, and even many Christian groups committing terrorism. Things like "Jihad" and "Muslim Terrorist" didn't even exist in the American conscious until 9/11.

I didn't say non Muslim terrorist groups never commit terrorist acts or kill in the name of God, but the vast majority of it is coming from Islam.

Columbine was not killing people for religious reasons which was what I was referring to in my post.

Also, when Muslims Massacre people ,they are doing what Muhammad did. When Christians commit violence or take away people's rights, they do the opposite of what Christ did and taught.

Islam is not just a religion but also a form of government , which is another reason they pose a threat that Christianity does not , because neither Jesus or the apostles ever started a form of government or forced their ways upon people through military force.

 

[Spiderman]

Look at Christianity. The Bible is extremely violent, horribly repressive, rampantly misogynist, and itself promotes policies that are counter to American and Western values.

Jesus said let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

When people took up Swords to defend him ,he said put your sword away ,those who live by the sword will die by the sword.

he said do not return evil for evil but turn the other cheek and love your enemies.

 

[Wirey]

I voted yes, but as a considered thing. I don't think you could be Trump without a thin skin.

 

[Wirey]

Jesus said let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

When people took up Swords to defend him ,he said put your sword away ,those who live by the sword will die by the sword.

he said do not return evil for evil but turn the other cheek and love your enemies.

Jesus was a true socialist. All true Christians must vote for Bernie.

 

[Spiderman]

I do think that behavior in the Old Testament is disgusting, and I have often read the Old Testament with Shame and resentment against God. I despize any Christian who wishes to live according to such barbaric practices. The Old Covenant was not for Gentiles anyway.

Muhammed came 600 years after Christ did away with such barbaric policies.

 

[vaguelyhumanoid]

I don't recall people going to war over women's suffrage, the end of Jim Crow laws, gay marriage, or other things. There was Stonewall, but many states either explicitly prohibited or were working towards banning gay marriage until the Supreme Court ruled it valid and legal in all 50 states.

I was talking about the labor movement for part of my argument. In 1914 the US National Guard massacred around 20 labor protestors in Colorado: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludlow_Massacre

State governments are still governing institutions, and it's only recently that marriage was the focus of the LGBT rights movement to begin with. I still think there are far more severe issues, such as queer youth homelessness and anti-transgender violence.

 

[Sunstone]

I do think that behavior in the Old Testament is disgusting, and I have often read the Old Testament with Shame and resentment against God. I despize any Christian who wishes to live according to such barbaric practices. The Old Covenant was not for Gentiles anyway.

Muhammed came 600 years after Christ did away with such barbaric policies.

I certainly applaud your considerate efforts to turn a thread on Trump's sense of humor into a rant about Muslims. [/sarcasm]

 

[Spiderman]

I certainly applaud your considerate efforts to turn a thread on Trump's sense of humor into a rant about Muslims. [/sarcasm]

you bring up a good point and so I am sorry and finished

I am one to appreciate correction

 

[Sunstone]

you bring up a good point and so I am sorry and finished

I am one to appreciate correction

Thank you! You're attitude is both admirable and refreshing.

 

[Spiderman]

Thank you! You're attitude is both admirable and refreshing.

Ditto!

And because of your attitude I have decided not to start the "let's bash Islam" thread I had planned on.

 

[metis]

There is a threat coming from Muslims that is worldwide. I was born in 1987, so nearly all of the violence and terrorism that I have seen in my lifetime committed in the name of God was done by Muslims.

The lifestyle of the Prophet Muhammad was one of polygamy, cutting off heads, pedophilia, pillaging, looting, and depriving people of freedom, so it was completely everything America stands against. Most moslems are for Sharia law, which is very much part of Islam ,and is very anti-American as well.

They exalt as a prophet of God , somebody whose views and policies were very anti-American, and about as far anti-American as one can get (despite America not existing at that time, but you know what I mean).

We have every reason to be highly suspicious of Muslims and single them out, not because most of them are bad people, but because they exalt such a figure , and there is also a threat that is coming from them that is not coming from others in the same degree.

Donald Trump is actually using common sense on keeping a nation safe in regard to his singling Muslims out.

The above is problematic on several counts.

First of all, all religions, including my own, have a checkered past, and like Jews and Christians, Muslims are not monolithic. Studies done here have shown that the vast majority of Muslims (95% in one study) condemn the terrorism they've seen.

Secondly, shari'a only can be used for the country if that country is controlled by Muslims. Where some are getting confused here is that shari'a in a non-Muslim state only applies to the Muslim community's internal affairs as long as it doesn't violate national law.

Thirdly, Islam actually in many areas was rather liberating, which is why it spread so fast and continues to spread, and I'm not referring to being spread "by the sword". Yes, there's no doubt that some aspects definitely run counter to American culture, but we need to remember that the vast majority of Muslims came here to get away from repressive regimes, some of which had shari'a, in order to start a new life.

Fourthly, if we want to defeat groups like ISIS and al-Queda, we desperately need the help of Muslims both here and overseas. Without their help, these groups not only will survive but they will continue to spread.

And finally, what Trump is saying and proposing to do runs entirely counter to both "common sense" and "keeping a nation safe". His bigoted and racist approaches will further divide an already divided country and will also aid and abet the enemy.

 

[metis]

Jesus said let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

When people took up Swords to defend him ,he said put your sword away ,those who live by the sword will die by the sword.

he said do not return evil for evil but turn the other cheek and love your enemies.

But the history of Christianity, including your church, has often be marked by oppression and violence towards various groups.