Trump to Withdraw from Iran Nuclear Deal

[Shad]

How is that different than what I said? You pointed out clauses as though they invalidated what I said.

I pointed out clauses as those were omitted by you and the article.

I pointed out that any such treaties would have such clauses. I'm pretty sure I nailed it.

After I pointed it out.

 

[Underhill]

I pointed out clauses as those were omitted by you and the article.



After I pointed it out.

Yes, you made an irrelevant point. Good on you.

 

[Shad]

Yes, you made an irrelevant point. Good on you.

It was a relevant point. Dodge some more.

 

[Underhill]

It was a relevant point. Dodge some more.

It would be relevant if it impacted my position. It really didn't.

Trump could get out of the deal even if a congressional treaty was in place.

 

[Shad]

It would be relevant if it impacted my position. It really didn't.

Trump could get out of the deal even if a congressional treaty was in place.

Not necessarily especially with a violable legislative branch. Ratification makes a treaty a law thus hard to merely "write off". Which was my original point.

 

[`mud]

There's a salad here somewhere, isn't there one ?
.....onesaidonesaid.....

 

[Underhill]

Not necessarily especially with a violable legislative branch. Ratification makes a treaty a law thus hard to merely "write off". Which was my original point.

Ratification may make more political sense, as it means more people had to approve it. But nobody would ever create a treaty with Iran without provisions for quick and easy removal from the treaty. There are too many ways Iran could **** us off for it to be any other way.

Theoretically yes. If congress were imbeciles who had no understanding of history and no foreign policy experience, and wrote a treaty without such a measure built into it, Trump would not be able to pull out so easily. But they would have to be absolute morons to do so.

If you believe the republican house and senate are incompetent morons, I suppose that is understandable. But for some reason I doubt you will like that position either.

 

[columbus]

Not necessarily especially with a violable legislative branch. Ratification makes a treaty a law thus hard to merely "write off". Which was my original point.

I don't believe it was possible for Obama to have gotten ratification for anything, no matter what deal he struck with the Iranian government.

The Republicans on Capitol Hill had made it clear that partisan obstruction was their only interest. I thought it crossed the line into treason myself. Obama could have developed a workable plan for world peace and prosperity and the Republicans would have opposed it.
Tom

 

[Shad]

I don't believe it was possible for Obama to have gotten ratification for anything, no matter what deal he struck with the Iranian government.

I am not sure about that give there was support from the GOP for the deal.

The Republicans on Capitol Hill had made it clear that partisan obstruction was their only interest. I thought it crossed the line into treason myself. Obama could have developed a workable plan for world peace and prosperity and the Republicans would have opposed it.
Tom

A number of GOP seats voted with the Dems to prevent an Congressional override of the Obama deal.

Treason is only applicable in war

 

[Shad]

Ratification may make more political sense, as it means more people had to approve it. But nobody would ever create a treaty with Iran without provisions for quick and easy removal from the treaty. There are too many ways Iran could **** us off for it to be any other way.

Sure. My issue that it was never even attempted. This left the deal within the same power structure that created it, EOs, thus can be undone on a political whim.

Theoretically yes. If congress were imbeciles who had no understanding of history and no foreign policy experience, and wrote a treaty without such a measure built into it, Trump would not be able to pull out so easily. But they would have to be absolute morons to do so.

My point was more about Trump's political whims being checked rather than a complex system of checks.

If you believe the republican house and senate are incompetent morons, I suppose that is understandable.

I believe this of many politicians on both sides of the aisle.

But for some reason I doubt you will like that position either.

Hard to say as it never happened.

 

[Underhill]

Sure. My issue that it was never even attempted. This left the deal within the same power structure that created it, EOs, thus can be undone on a political whim.


My point was more about Trump's political whims being checked rather than a complex system of checks.


I believe this of many politicians on both sides of the aisle.


Hard to say as it never happened.

And it never would have as republicans made it clear they wouldn't pass anything Obama sent them. Good, bad or indifferent. It was their MO for the last 6 years he was in the white house.

None of this changes the fact that Trump screwed the pooch on this one.

 

[columbus]

And it never would have as republicans made it clear they wouldn't pass anything Obama sent them.

They sent an open letter to the world, letting everyone know that nothing was too important to escape Republican partisanship.
Not even a peace deal with a country we have been attacking for decades.
Tom