Trump's strong support / Democrats' lack of support, by white women

[Jose Fly]

Weird how the audits keep finding more votes for Joe Biden and yet we still have to hear this nonsense about the election being stolen.

I told everyone in my circles who would listen that if Trump lost in 2020, he'd try and take the country down with him. He's certainly proven me right.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I told everyone in my circles who would listen that if Trump lost in 2020, he'd try and take the country down with him. He's certainly proven me right.

My husband and I were thinking the exact same thing in the 1 1/2 - 2 years leading up to the election. He's just such a petulant child.
Looks like he managed to do it, unfortunately.

 

[Aštra’el]

 

[SkepticThinker]

I would if the supposed rape happened recently and what she wore when it happened may still contain evidence of the crime
Yes.

Also - if her outfit may help us find potential witnesses to seeing her with her alleged rapist either before or after the crime was committed.

Some people may remember an outfit over a face.

So - yes again.

What I meant was, were you going to ask her what she was wearing in order to imply that she “wanted it” or was looking for “it.” You know, like the traditional talking point people have tried to use to easily dismiss sexual assault allegations.

Again - sorry for what happened to you - but aren't you basically admitting that you regret not doing more immediately after the crime took place?

Yes and no. I didn’t have the courage to do it back then when it happened. I was a mess. And since then, I’ve developed debilitating panic disorder that I’ve spent the last couple of years trying to deal with and overcome. Recently, during a therapy session it was revealed what had happened to me and my therapist told me that she was obligated to contact the police, as I was a minor at the time it happened. So she did. In our next session, she told me in a rather baffled manner that the police said they couldn’t do anything about it as there were no kids currently living with this man, who might be in danger. Never mind that he had nieces that frequently visited for a swim in the pool (ugh!). That’s how these things tend to go, unfortunately.

I believe that if you had told people right after it happened - you would have been better off and there would have been more evidence against your rapist.

There wouldn’t have been much evidence at all. I’m not even sure rape kits existed back then. But even if I had gone to the hospital and had an invasive rape kit procedure performed on me (that’s right after being raped), that kit would have sat on the shelf and collected dust as thousands of others have all across North America for the last couple of decades. Probably nothing would have happened because rape culture was much more entrenched in the 1980s and this kind of stuff wasn’t taken all that seriously.

Hell, rape didn’t even become an actual crime that anybody cared about until like the 1960s. Marital rape wasn’t even considered a crime until the 1970s. Think about that.

And it wasn’t until the mid 1970’s that anybody even cared to create laws that limited the Defense’s ability to probe into past sexual history of rape victims on the stand during court trials. Think about that. Defence teams used to be able to trot out a victim’s sexual history as though that had anything to do with her being raped at all! As though being raped were somehow her fault. In other words, they had free reign to publicly humiliate rape victims on the stand.
After they’d already been humiliated by their rapist. Disgusting. Many decades later, MeToo helped us bring this crap to light and dismiss it for the filth it is. And yet we still have people like you wondering why people don’t report sexual assault when it happens. Gee, I wonder why.

Here, I’ll give you two examples of instances where I reported something that happened to me at the time it actually happened, just to illustrate for you how these things tend to play out for us women and how the MeToo movement was so important and necessary to bring such things to light.

When I was 14-15 years old, my boyfriend’s father started trying to grope me and kiss me whenever we happened to be alone. I couldn’t make him stop. Nothing worked. So I told my boyfriend, despite the fact that I was soooo embarrassed about it. It was incredibly hard for me to get it out and tell him what was happening. And do you know what he said to me? He said I was making too much out of it and this is just what people do; this is how men behave. And you know what? I felt like a total fool. I started thinking, well maybe this is normal. How would I know? This man used to drive me home from their house at night and I started begging my boyfriend to come along so that his dad wouldn’t do anything to me. He’d just pat me on the head and tell me it was okay. Well, it wasn’t okay. Finally on one of these drives when he started trying to touch me, I jumped out of the car when we were stopped at an intersection and walked home in the dead of night. As I was walking I kept thinking about how I could easily get attacked and how everybody would probably be asking “why were you walking home alone at night” as though it were my fault. I was in a no-win situation, thanks to rape culture attitude. Oh I almost forgot the best part ... After I broke up with my boyfriend over this, his dad showed up on my front porch knocking and screaming about how I'm a whore. Isn't that fun?

I finally got up the courage to break up with him so I could get away from his dad. I didn’t tell anyone else about that until recently, given how horribly embarrassing it went the first time I tried to tell someone. And years later, I still suffer from intense guilt, thinking about how he may have molested others and how I should have done more to stop him. This was the guy I was talking to my therapist about in my earlier example.

Cut to fifteen years later and I’m working in an office where there is a guy who keeps trying to grab me and kiss me every time I got near him. I can’t make him stop. So I tell my boss about it. And you know what he said to me? “Can I get a kiss too?” Seriously, that’s what he said. Then I went to the office administrator who is a woman, thinking she might take me seriously. You know what she said? “Well, nobody was there to witness it. After first going on about women not speaking up about sexual assault allegations until years later when they think they can make a buck. Even though here I was, reporting the allegations right after they happened. I had no HR department to go to; there were no more options available to me. And that was his response. Nothing was done and that guy continued working there. I had to quit my job and go on unemployment until I could find another one where some dude wasn’t trying to grope me all the time.

Traditionally, that’s about how it goes, on average. So please spare me the allusions to false accusations, the “whores” and the “she’s just in it for the fame and fortune” nonsense. All I want is to be left alone without some jerk thinking my body is there for him to touch whenever he pleases (like Trump!).

Continued ...

 

[SkepticThinker]

I think instead of encouraging women to wait decades before crying rape - we should be teaching them to do it immediately and with extreme prejudice.

I don’t think anyone encourages waiting to report such crimes. I’ve just explained to you some of the reasons why people tend not to report sexual assault crimes when they happen and instead live with them and let them fester inside their heads for decades.

Also terms like “crying rape” are pretty accusatory, don’t you think? You’re already starting from the accusatory/dissmisive mindset I was just talking about.

Because if you tell people that it is okay to accuse others of crimes many years after the fact - with no evidence - and the world will believe you without any sort of due process - the person you accused will have their lives destroyed - that's a system ripe for abuse.

It is okay to accuse rapists of rape, any time at all, when a person is comfortable doing so.

Victims have their lives destroyed all the time. Look at Christine Blase Ford. She had to move out of her house because she was receiving death threats from people who didn’t believe her. And what happened to Brett Kavanugh? Well, he gets to be a Supreme Court justice. Poor him, right? :eyeroll: His life certainly was not destroyed. But the victim’s was.

Or hey, we can talk about men too. Corey Feldman claims that he and Corey Haim were sexually abused when they were younger. Multiple times over many years. Does anyone believe them or even care? Doesn’t seem like it. Corey Haim overdosed on drugs he became addicted to when he was very young; drugs he used as a coping mechanism to deal with his trauma. I don’t see their accusers on trial, having their lives ruined. Do you?

Or how about Rose McGowan? She came out and claimed that Harvey Weinstein had abused her many years ago, and then used his power and influence to ruin her (and many others’) career. Look how many accusations and how long it took to get Weinstein locked up.

Or Bill Cosby (who is back out of prison now already!). Or Jeffrey Epstein.

And there are many examples of false rape accusations out there where the accused lost everything.

Many? I call BS. This is just more of accusatory attitude I’ve been talking about which allows you to just dismiss rape claims because well, sometimes there are false ones. Nonsense! I’m sorry to tell you but your views on this are entrenched in rape culture.

If you have children - teach them to speak up if anything happens to them.

Absolutely! On that we can agree.

I thank the MeToo movement for bringing this stuff out in the open and making it easier for victims to come forward without fear of humiliation and retaliation (which they’ll still endure anyway).

I believe that most of that movement was garbage.

Well, you believe wrong. Take it from a woman – it was much needed.

Because - on one hand - you have women in these industries who believe that sex is just a transaction and they were willing to exchange their bodies for movie roles or jobs or promotions.

Oh, we do? Or is that what rape culture has taught you?

Think about the power dynamic that movie producers/directors/actors/etc. have over the people auditioning for parts in their movies. They can make or break your career. Just ask Rose McGowan how it turned out for her when she turned down Harvey Weinstein’s advances and told the world about how he treats women.

And then you have actual victims.

However - that movement equated the two - and I felt that that was wrong.

Get your head out of this rape culture attitude and maybe you’ll get it. Power dynamics play a huge role in rape culture.

I was telling you to wake up.

Nothing in that transcript suggested that anything he did was without consent.

Whores exist. They chase money and fame - and Trump had all that.

Whores receive money in exchange for sex. “Whores” actually consent to sexual relations with the person paying them.

Trump talked about grabbing women “by the p***y” and “kissing them, I don’t even wait.”

What do you think he meant by that part: “I don’t even wait.” Sounds like “I don’t even wait for their consent” to me. Not to you though, because you’re entrenched in rape culture where you think women want this done to them.

You’re the one who needs to wake up. Sounds like you should have paid closer attention to the MeToo movement instead of dismissing it and women as “whores,” as you’ve done here.

You see?

Since you are okay with women accusing men of rape decades later with no evidence - and you fully support convicting those men in the court of public opinion with no due process - you feel comfortable claiming that people are racist with no evidence.

Yes, I am perfectly okay with any woman coming out against her rapist at any time she feels comfortable doing so. Any time at all. It’s a difficult thing to do.

No evidence? I’ve given you the evidence about 37 times now. You dismiss it because you’ve got some thing for Trump and something against the people you keep referring to as “whores.” Trump will be dragged into court on some of these, as there are still some pending law suits in the works. Unfortunately, the very rich tend to get out of this stuff because well, money and power.

It's like a disease. You don't believe that one man deserves to have rights afforded to others - based on the fact that you don't like them - but soon you are making claims about everyone without evidence - and it spreads.

LOL Nope.

Provide evidence of President Trump's racism.

I’ve seen countless posters provide this evidence to you. You have blinders on for this despicable dishonest man that you believe is honest for some bizarre reason.

No - I don't.

Then quit acting like you do.

Continued ...

 

[Jose Fly]

It's fascinating to watch Christians defend Trump's lifestyle. It reminds me of a time in 2016 and how my mom, a very conservative Christian, was all enthusiastic about him so I asked her, "How can you so eagerly support and defend this man? He's everything you raised me not to be!"

Not only is Trump dragging the country down with him, he's taking Christianity along for the ride as well.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Like you - I think it was arrogant and entitled - totally gross. I have never done it and I won't ever do it.

Awesome. Something else we can agree on.

However - what I am saying is that his bragging about his sexual conquests is not evidence of rape or sexual assault.

It just isn't.

See my above comment on this.

I don't think men are going to completely open up to a woman about their sexual exploits.

How about if they don’t know I’m listening?

And - sorry - but you don't have the authority to declare what is or is not "locker room talk".

Sure I do. There is regular talk and then there’s the crap Trump said, which is something that only entitled pigs that don’t understand boundaries would say.

What attitudes? That he is attracted to women and he believed that because he was a "star" that they would "let" him do things to them?

The attitude that you can just grope women whenever you feel like and without asking.

If that was all they wanted to "expose" - then they were late to the party - because everyone already knew that.

Apparently they didn’t. But we know now.

No - they brought out this recording so they could falsely accuse him of rape and sexual assault with no evidence.

There’s your rape culture attitude talking again. The accusations just can’t be true, these women must be trying to get something out of it. Yeah, ‘cause they got so much – they’re all filthy rich now, right?

Yeah, totally weird how 26+ women totally corroborated Trump’s own story and yet you still don’t believe them. Or Trump himself when he says what he does.

I know if I saw my rapist running for President, I’d probably feel compelled to tell the world what he’d done to me so that a rapist wouldn’t be elected to the President of the United States.

I know you are okay with accusing men of crimes without evidence and having them convicted by the court of public opinion.

Again, see my above comments.

We have been over that already.

But he was Donald Trump.

He has been in the public spotlight his entire life.

Ample time and opportunity to accuse him.

It's not like they forgot about him until he was coming down that escalator.

So what? He wasn’t that close to becoming President of the United States until recently.

Hell, his ex-wife (Ivana) accused him of rape in a book she wrote. That was long before he was running for President. That goes all the way back to 1989.

In 1992 Jill Harth accused Trump of groping her (much like in the way he described in that tape! Go figure). She filed a law suit in 1997.

Ridiculous.

I fail to see what is ridiculous about it.

Show me the tape.

I listened to it years ago when it aired.
Donald Trump to Howard Stern: It's okay to call my daughter a 'piece of ***' | CNN Politics

Also, at least five Miss Teen USA contestants have since come out to report that Trump had come into the dressing room while they were changing.
Teen Beauty Queens Say Trump Walked In On Them Changing

Oh and this particular comment from one of the contestant’s stuck out to me, based on one of your earlier comments in this post:

“A third said she was not voting for Trump and wouldn’t say more because “this is not about politics.” But, she added, “When he started running for president, that is one of the first things I thought about: Oh, gross, this guy walked in on us in the pageant.” Girls were “just scrambling to grab stuff,” she said, “whatever garments they had.”

So here’s another case where the accusations match Trump’s own reporting of his own behaviour.

First - President Trump never claimed that he didn't have their consent - he said "let".

Yeah - that is what we have been talking about.

It's still not relevant to what President Trump said.

He said, “I don’t even wait.” What do you think that means?

Second - I have no idea what either of those actors talk about.

I bet you it’s not that – unless they’re disgusting pigs like Trump.

Yeah sure … “grab them by the p***y”

Grab me by the p***y and you won’t be getting your arm back.

You have been saying it all throughout this discussion.

If you overheard your brother telling his friends, "Bro - I had sex with this girl - she let me do anything I wanted."

You would automatically assume that he was describing himself committing rape or sexual assault?

No, I wouldn’t because that scenario is completely different.

As if men openly brag to their friends about the crimes they have committed?

Trump is not a regular person. He bragged on a tape that he probably thought nobody would ever hear. Oopsie.

And you have repeatedly claimed that President Trump did these awful things without evidence

So - yeah - I stick by what I said - you assume the worst of people you don't like and you don't believe in due process of law.
.

You really should read my posts to get an accurate picture of what I believe. I gave you evidence. You just don’t like it.

Well - considering that that recording has been available for decades - literally any woman in the world could "corroborate" what he said.

Dude, nobody heard it until it was released publicly in 2016.

And he never claimed that he did anything without the consent of the women.

None of this is evidence that he committed any crime. Sorry.

Yeah, he did.

How often do you talk about grabbing women by the “p***y, where you didn’t even wait for her to tell you it was okay? How often do you do it?

I mean - I could claim right now that I have raped a hundred women - that doesn't mean that I did.

I don’t know why you’d do that to yourself.

And let's say someone recorded me claiming that I raped a bunch of women and it got distributed to the entire country.

At that point - any woman could come claiming that I raped them - couldn't they?

Unless you have evidence or a confession to a specific crime - you got nothing.

I looked - but still saw no evidence.

LOL Look at the absurd lengths you have to go to defend this disgusting man.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Awesome. Something else we can agree on.



See my above comment on this.



How about if they don’t know I’m listening?



Sure I do. There is regular talk and then there’s the crap Trump said, which is something that only entitled pigs that don’t understand boundaries would say.



The attitude that you can just grope women whenever you feel like and without asking.



Apparently they didn’t. But we know now.



There’s your rape culture attitude talking again. The accusations just can’t be true, these women must be trying to get something out of it. Yeah, ‘cause they got so much – they’re all filthy rich now, right?

Yeah, totally weird how 26+ women totally corroborated Trump’s own story and yet you still don’t believe them. Or Trump himself when he says what he does.

I know if I saw my rapist running for President, I’d probably feel compelled to tell the world what he’d done to me so that a rapist wouldn’t be elected to the President of the United States.



Again, see my above comments.



So what? He wasn’t that close to becoming President of the United States until recently.

Hell, his ex-wife (Ivana) accused him of rape in a book she wrote. That was long before he was running for President. That goes all the way back to 1989.

In 1992 Jill Harth accused Trump of groping her (much like in the way he described in that tape! Go figure). She filed a law suit in 1997.



I fail to see what is ridiculous about it.



I listened to it years ago when it aired.
Donald Trump to Howard Stern: It's okay to call my daughter a 'piece of ***' | CNN Politics

Also, at least five Miss Teen USA contestants have since come out to report that Trump had come into the dressing room while they were changing.
Teen Beauty Queens Say Trump Walked In On Them Changing

Oh and this particular comment from one of the contestant’s stuck out to me, based on one of your earlier comments in this post:

“A third said she was not voting for Trump and wouldn’t say more because “this is not about politics.” But, she added, “When he started running for president, that is one of the first things I thought about: Oh, gross, this guy walked in on us in the pageant.” Girls were “just scrambling to grab stuff,” she said, “whatever garments they had.”

So here’s another case where the accusations match Trump’s own reporting of his own behaviour.



He said, “I don’t even wait.” What do you think that means?


I bet you it’s not that – unless they’re disgusting pigs like Trump.

Yeah sure … “grab them by the p***y”

Grab me by the p***y and you won’t be getting your arm back.

No, I wouldn’t because that scenario is completely different.



Trump is not a regular person. He bragged on a tape that he probably thought nobody would ever hear. Oopsie.



You really should read my posts to get an accurate picture of what I believe. I gave you evidence. You just don’t like it.


Dude, nobody heard it until it was released publicly in 2016.


Yeah, he did.

How often do you talk about grabbing women by the “p***y, where you didn’t even wait for her to tell you it was okay? How often do you do it?



I don’t know why you’d do that to yourself.



LOL Look at the absurd lengths you have to go to defend this disgusting man.

When it comes to claims of Trump barging in on beauty queens in the midst of changing one does not even have to go to the victims. That is another thing that Trump boasted about on the Howard Stern show. He thought that because he owned the tournament that he had the right to violate their privacy.

 

[metis]

Not only is Trump dragging the country down with him, he's taking Christianity along for the ride as well.

Quite possibly as this has happened before.