Trump's wall will save America money

[Spiderman]

I was just watching on the news that the cost of border problems is 100 billion dollars a year roughly and that securing the border with a wall will cost 20 billion dollars and save us money. I don't think the wall is a bad idea. Trump is overly optimistic and obviously mistaken in thinking we will get Mexico to pay, but either way we will save money by securing the borders
The Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on United States Taxpayers (2013)

 

[Kemosloby]

If you build it, they won't come.

 

[suncowiam]

I was just watching on the news that the cost of border problems is 100 billion dollars a year roughly and that securing the border with a wall will cost 20 billion dollars and save us money. I don't think the wall is a bad idea. Trump is overly optimistic and obviously mistaken in thinking we will get Mexico to pay, but either way we will save money by securing the borders

Where is the evidence? Where are the studies? Where are the experts?

What is the final plan, the details?

With so much unknown, how are you proving all this?

Would you spend your money if you weren't sure of the results?

 

[Spiderman]

Where is the evidence? Where are the studies? Where are the experts?

What is the final plan, the details?

With so much unknown, how are you proving all this?

Would you spend your money if you weren't sure of the results?

I don't have proof. As I said, it's just what I saw on the news

 

[suncowiam]

I don't have proof. As I said, it's just what I saw on the news

If you don't have proof, how can you come to any conclusion including that we will save money by securing the border. How much money do you think illegal immigrants brings to the US. How much money do they save employers and their customers because of their illegal low wages?

I'm also available against illegal immigration but let's be honest and clear on the facts before making conclusions.

 

[Spiderman]

If you don't have proof, how can you come to any conclusion including that we will save money by securing the border. How much money do you think illegal immigrants brings to the US. How much money do they save employers and their customers because of their illegal low wages?

I'm also available against illegal immigration but let's be honest and clear on the facts before making conclusions.

I'm just saying what the News said. Take it or leave it and I beg your pardon for not having proof first.

Just thought I'd share what the News said.

 

[suncowiam]

I'm just saying what the News said. Take it or leave it and I beg your pardon for not having proof first.

Just thought I'd share what the News said.

Your title and how you ended your OP are misleading.

Others can use this thread to justify the wall. I like to see them try.

 

[Spiderman]

Your title and how you ended your OP are misleading.

Others can use this thread to justify the wall. I like to see them try.

When I saw the news, I was quite in favor of the wall. I don't think they were lying or stating falsehood

 

[Spiderman]

cost of illegal immigration a year is about 113 billion dollars
The Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on United States Taxpayers (2013)

 

[Deathbydefault]

I was just watching on the news that the cost of border problems is 100 billion dollars a year roughly and that securing the border with a wall will cost 20 billion dollars and save us money. I don't think the wall is a bad idea. Trump is overly optimistic and obviously mistaken in thinking we will get Mexico to pay, but either way we will save money by securing the borders

I assume there will still be quite a large chunk of money going towards border issues.
Mexico's people aren't dumb enough to forget how to use ropes and ladders, after all.
Same theme, different scenario, billions wasted.

 

[suncowiam]

cost of illegal immigration a year is about 113 billion dollars
The Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on United States Taxpayers (2013)

This study only considers the tax paid by illegal immigrants. It did not consider the difference in economy without their ultra low wages. It's incomplete.

Also, this study does not prove a wall will be effective.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

cost of illegal immigration a year is about 113 billion dollars
The Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on United States Taxpayers (2013)

This study seems to be using estimates that ignore illegal immigrants who still have taxes deducted from their paychecks after giving invalid SSNs as well as ITINs. Making this number way more exaggerated than the reality even more so than previously pointed out.

If you build it, they won't come.

Except the 60% who come by planes, ships and cars with legitimate temporary visas and then overstay, which the wall will do bupkiss for. Just another example of Republicans who value sound bites over actual research.

 

[Kemosloby]

This study seems to be using estimates that ignore illegal immigrants who still have taxes deducted from their paychecks after giving invalid SSNs as well as ITINs. Making this number way more exaggerated than the reality even more so than previously pointed out.


Except the 60% who come by planes, ships and cars with legitimate temporary visas and then overstay, which the wall will do bupkiss for. Just another example of Republicans who value sound bites over actual research.

Hey, i made that up, it's nothing i heard. At least in that variation. The wall is a start, got to start somewhere. At least the planes and ships go through some sort of screening for drugs and human trafficking, A wall will make it more difficult for people smuggling drugs and other things.

 

[BSM1]

If you don't have proof, how can you come to any conclusion including that we will save money by securing the border. How much money do you think illegal immigrants brings to the US. How much money do they save employers and their customers because of their illegal low wages?

I'm also available against illegal immigration but let's be honest and clear on the facts before making conclusions.

This study seems to be using estimates that ignore illegal immigrants who still have taxes deducted from their paychecks after giving invalid SSNs as well as ITINs. Making this number way more exaggerated than the reality even more so than previously pointed out.


Except the 60% who come by planes, ships and cars with legitimate temporary visas and then overstay, which the wall will do bupkiss for. Just another example of Republicans who value sound bites over actual research.

Many of these workers are being paid 'under the table' and pay no income tax. Still it doesn't matter. Illegal immigrants are just that-"illegal". The wall will go along way to protect our southern border and help makes us a nation of laws again. And before you ask I do feel for those outside the US that are downtrodden, but that's beside the point. BTW, over 5 billion was appropriated for the wall construction during the Bush administration but it was never spent; so we already have a downpayment in the bank.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Hey, i made that up, it's nothing i heard. At least in that variation. The wall is a start, got to start somewhere. At least the planes and ships go through some sort of screening for drugs and human trafficking, A wall will make it more difficult for people smuggling drugs and other things.

Didn't say the sound bite was something you didn't make up. Just that it's a sound bite. A bumpersticker platitude approach to the problem.

Also no it won't, as drugs en mass don't come on single border hoppers but generally come through tunnels (there are estimated to be thousands of established tunnel systems already in place) and ships. Remember the cocaine found on Mitch McConnell's cargo ship from Colombia? The same is true of Mexican drug cartels.

 

[Kemosloby]

Didn't say the sound bite was something you didn't make up. Just that it's a sound bite. A bumpersticker platitude approach to the problem.

Also no it won't, as drugs en mass don't come on single border hoppers but generally come through tunnels (there are estimated to be thousands of established tunnel systems already in place) and ships. Remember the cocaine found on Mitch McConnell's cargo ship from Colombia? The same is true of Mexican drug cartels.

Brevity is the soul of wit. Sometimes a soundbite says it all. I guess they will unearth all the tunnels during the construction project. But then construction sites are notorious for drugs too.

 

[suncowiam]

Many of these workers are being paid 'under the table' and pay no income tax. Still it doesn't matter. Illegal immigrants are just that-"illegal". The wall will go along way to protect our southern border and help makes us a nation of laws again. And before you ask I do feel for those outside the US that are downtrodden, but that's beside the point. BTW, over 5 billion was appropriated for the wall construction during the Bush administration but it was never spent; so we already have a downpayment in the bank.

How do you know that a wall will help? Plus, what is the cost effectiveness of such a wall. How many less immigrants are we preventing? My point is that there is no data. It's all based on assumptions.

I am against illegal immigration. I just don't like seeing money wash down the toilet.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Many of these workers are being paid 'under the table' and pay no income tax. Still it doesn't matter. Illegal immigrants are just that-"illegal". The wall will go along way to protect our southern border and help makes us a nation of laws again. And before you ask I do feel for those outside the US that are downtrodden, but that's beside the point. BTW, over 5 billion was appropriated for the wall construction during the Bush administration but it was never spent; so we already have a downpayment in the bank.

Under the table payment doesn't explain the billions in taxes coming through fake socials even immigration says is from illegal migrants. It's a lot easier for both undocumented migrants and employers when a fake social is involved.

As for the border wall being in any way effective, there's simply no evidence of this. Once again, the vast majority enter legally on temporary visas and overstay, and don't enter on foot. This does nothing about planes, ships, tunnels, or cars where the occupants already have visas.

Incidentally there's 5 billion because Bush's Secure Fence Act was a colossal failure. It got mired down in very real considerations for habitat protection, Native American site protection, property ownership laws, etc etc. Ended up being so expensive once the research was done that it was abandoned. Which is funny, since Trump just announced the wall is going to be more expensive than they thought. Big shock.

 

[suncowiam]

Brevity is the soul of wit. Sometimes a soundbite says it all. I guess they will unearth all the tunnels during the construction project. But then construction sites are notorious for drugs too.

Stop with the assumptions and guessing.

You're not addressing the specifics. It's completely valid to know how effective it will be before we buy it.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Brevity is the soul of wit. Sometimes a soundbite says it all. I guess they will unearth all the tunnels during the construction project. But then construction sites are notorious for drugs too.

But more often a soundbite critically understated the problem and misrepresents it in an effort to be catchy.

Would be a pretty ineffective tunnel if the entrances were visible from the border. And I highly doubt laying foundation for the wall would expose them as other property construction like birder stations and personal property haven't.