Truth: either God exists or He don't.

[TagliatelliMonster]

Who set up the laws of nature? That doesn’t just happen

The laws of nature are human descriptions of how nature works.
It describes how the various things in the universe interact with one another, based on its properties.

The laws of nature are not random and pretty amazing how everything works together. Don’t think you and I will ever come to terms though because we see things totally different.

Indeed. We actually care about evidence. You only care about your a priori beliefs - regardless of evidence.

Do you believe in unseen spiritual forces?

Why would we believe in undetectable things that are indistinguishable from imagination?

 

[ElishaElijah]

It depends upon one's definition of "proof". By the legal standard of " proof beyond a reasonable doubt" then yes, Genesis has been proven to be false. If one goes by the mathematical definition, then no. But by that standard gravity is not proven.

And we were talking about reliable evidence. Your definition is not one of reliable evidence. Reliable means that any rationally reasoning person would accept it as evidence. Your personal interpretation is only accepted by a small minority and has nothing to do with rational thought.

Don't you ever wonder on why I keep harping on the idea of testing one's beliefs properly? That is how one tells if they are rational or not. In your case it looks as if you are looking for excuses to believe rather than approaching your beliefs rationally.

Rational beliefs tend to be far more reliable than religious ones.

As far as definitions are concerned

It depends upon one's definition of "proof". By the legal standard of " proof beyond a reasonable doubt" then yes, Genesis has been proven to be false. If one goes by the mathematical definition, then no. But by that standard gravity is not proven.

And we were talking about reliable evidence. Your definition is not one of reliable evidence. Reliable means that any rationally reasoning person would accept it as evidence. Your personal interpretation is only accepted by a small minority and has nothing to do with rational thought.

Don't you ever wonder on why I keep harping on the idea of testing one's beliefs properly? That is how one tells if they are rational or not. In your case it looks as if you are looking for excuses to believe rather than approaching your beliefs rationally.

Rational beliefs tend to be far more reliable than religious ones.

No I don’t wonder why you keep harping on testing anything properly or not, glad you got your answers to life. Been great talking to you.

 

[ElishaElijah]

The laws of nature are human descriptions of how nature works.
It describes how the various things in the universe interact with one another, based on its properties.


Indeed. We actually care about evidence. You only care about your a priori beliefs - regardless of evidence.



Why would we believe in undetectable things that are indistinguishable from imagination?

Your conclusions are wrong, I didn’t have any preconceived ideas, my arguments sounded a lot like yours, because it’s easy to argue your point of view. When I got to a certain point in life where all my foolish talk and ideas got me in trouble no amount of science experiments or wishful thinking worked. But when I cried out to God, He was there to deliver me and did, so I tell everyone what He has done over the last 30 years. Some people are encouraged and seek God for themselves, others don’t. That part isn’t something I can control. Evidence includes someone’s testimony, outward sign, one who bears witness, which is in the dictionary so you’ll have to get something else on that.

 

[ElishaElijah]

View attachment 47717

A fire raged there.
No "who" to observe a fire raging required.


Events of the past leave evidence behind that can be investigated in the present.

Or would you say that it's impossible to tell what happened there, because nobody was around to see it?


Think.

True so when I see something well built or great technology I don’t wonder how it got here but who engineered and built that. That’s how I see Creation...wow what an awesome Creator that everything works like this, what a design! Can’t wait to see the perfection of Heaven with my Creator.
You found something else

 

[Trailblazer]

"You misinterpret the Scriptures to fit your beliefs so you are like the pot calling the kettle black."

Isn’t it a peculiarity of Bahaism, please?

Regards

No, it is not a peculiarity of the Baha'i Faith. All religions do this.
Religious people all BELIEVE they have the correct interpretation of the Scriptures, but that is logically impossible since their interpretations differ..... So who really knows which one is correct? Scriptures can have many meanings all of which are correct, but only God knows the intended meaning, and as such the Representative of God has the most correct interpretation. Baha'u'llah was the Manifestation of God for this age and as such He was the Representative of God among men.

“Know assuredly that just as thou firmly believest that the Word of God, exalted be His glory, endureth for ever, thou must, likewise, believe with undoubting faith that its meaning can never be exhausted. They who are its appointed interpreters, they whose hearts are the repositories of its secrets, are, however, the only ones who can comprehend its manifold wisdom. Whoso, while reading the Sacred Scriptures, is tempted to choose therefrom whatever may suit him with which to challenge the authority of the Representative of God among men, is, indeed, as one dead, though to outward seeming he may walk and converse with his neighbors, and share with them their food and their drink.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 175-176

 

[ElishaElijah]

This is the equivalent of pointing at a freezer and use that as an "argument" that the ice at the north pole is "designed".

I suggest you read up on what "controlled conditions" are.




There's no reason to admit strawmen arguments.

It’s a question you have to

This is the equivalent of pointing at a freezer and use that as an "argument" that the ice at the north pole is "designed".

I suggest you read up on what "controlled conditions" are.




There's no reason to admit strawmen arguments.

You have no answer for this, in evolution apart from God you have to go back to the beginning because material cannot just appear on its own from nothing.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Just like in a freezer.

No, the water does not "appear from nowhere".

The freezer merely provides a controlled environment.
Water turns into ice in it.

If the same conditions exist in the real world, water will freeze there too.

Again, you should think things through a bit.

Where did the water come from?

 

[Trailblazer]

'God can not come in the flesh, because God is Spirit" This means that God is not able to appear in physical form, but He is able to create the whole universe and everything in it.

That's right. Why would the Almighty God appear in physical form? LOL.
God manifests His attributes in a man who is called a Manifestation of God, but God does not BECOME a man.

1 Timothy 3:16 King James Version (KJV)

16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

 

[Trailblazer]

Sorry friend but I’m not interpreting the Scriptures just presenting what they say in plain language. What you are doing is disagreeing and using an interpretation.

Sorry, Scriptures do not talk. They just sit on a page until someone reads the page and interprets them as they read them and assigns a meaning to them. This is logic 101 stuff.

It is the epitome of arrogance to insist only you know the correct meaning. There is nothing I can do with people who believe they know everything, as there can never be any discussion.

 

[Trailblazer]

The problem is that "God has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt" to others too. And those beliefs are extremely different from yours. You both can't be right. But you could both be wrong. People that are afraid to test their beliefs seem to be wrong far more often than those with real confidence. If you actually knew that you were right you would have no fear of testing. Your actions do not match your stated beliefs.

Again, I admire your fortitude, but it is a waste of time talking logic to Christians who just BELIEVE.
They do not even know what logic is. They just BELIEVE.

That said, there really is no way to test religious beliefs, but we can look at the evidence that supports their truth value to determine which ones are true.

 

[Subduction Zone]

As far as definitions are concerned

No I don’t wonder why you keep harping on testing anything properly or not, glad you got your answers to life. Been great talking to you.

You seriously do not appear to understand. If you did understand you would see that your beliefs are probably false.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Again, I admire your fortitude, but it is a waste of time talking logic to Christians who just BELIEVE.
They do not even know what logic is. They just BELIEVE.

That said, there really is no way to test religious beliefs, but we can look at the evidence that supports their truth value to determine which ones are true.

Here’s a test, you reap what you sow. I planted an apple seed and got an apple tree. I love Gods law.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Where did the water come from?

There is such a thing as a stupid question. Do you mean the water on the Earth? We can tell you.

Do you understand that looking for excuses to believe probably means that you are wrong? You in effect keep telling us that you are wrong by your behavior here. Someone that wants to be right tests their beliefs and corrects them. You refuse to do so. In fact you believe in a lying God.. A very bad belief for a Christian to have.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Here’s a test, you reap what you sow. I planted an apple seed and got an apple tree. I love Gods law.

No, that is merely a saying And why do you believe in a lying God?

 

[ElishaElijah]

There is such a thing as a stupid question. Do you mean the water on the Earth? We can tell you.

Do you understand that looking for excuses to believe probably means that you are wrong? You in effect keep telling us that you are wrong by your behavior here. Someone that wants to be right tests their beliefs and corrects them. You refuse to do so. In fact you believe in a lying God.. A very bad belief for a Christian to have.

You can’t seem to answer that basic question

 

[Trailblazer]

You seriously do not appear to understand. If you did understand you would see that your beliefs are probably false.

Sadly, he'll never even entertain the possibility that he could be wrong because he does not want to believe anything except what he already believes.

“If a man were to declare, ‘There is a lamp in the next room which gives no light’, one hearer might be satisfied with his report, but a wiser man goes into the room to judge for himself, and behold, when he finds the light shining brilliantly in the lamp, he knows the truth!” Paris Talks, p. 103

 

[Subduction Zone]

You can’t seem to answer that basic question

Because it was improperly asked. My answer told you how your question was too vague to answer properly. Once again, ask proper questions if you want complete answers. Ask poorly formed questions and we can only explain to you why your question is poorly formed. You are blaming others for your failure here.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Sadly, he'll never even entertain the possibility that he could be wrong because he does not want to believe anything except what he already believes.

“If a man were to declare, ‘There is a lamp in the next room which gives no light’, one hearer might be satisfied with his report, but a wiser man goes into the room to judge for himself, and behold, when he finds the light shining brilliantly in the lamp, he knows the truth!” Paris Talks, p. 103

I have a hope that such people are here because part of them fears that they are wrong. Sadly most are looking for excuses to believe, they are not looking for real answers.

 

[ElishaElijah]

No, that is merely a saying And why do you believe in a lying God?

It’s not just a saying but an important principle in life.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Because it was improperly asked. My answer told you how your question was too vague to answer properly. Once again, ask proper questions if you want complete answers. Ask poorly formed questions and we can only explain to you why your question is poorly formed. You are blaming others for your failure here.

I’m not blaming anyone, you can believe whatever you want to that’s freedom. Poorly formed questions is funny to me though.