No, the classification changed. Not the truth. The issue was whether Pluto satisfied the new classification or not.
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Truth is not same for everyone.
- Thread starter Spirit of Light
- Start date
No, the classification changed. Not the truth. The issue was whether Pluto satisfied the new classification or not.
No, that was belief based on availability data. And todays view is also belief. A fact would be that there are planets out there in the solar system.
BSM1
What? Me worry?
Well, actually, it was not opinion when I was in school, it was scientific truth that we had nine planets comprising our Solar System. And, yes, the fact is that there are planets in our solar system, however, Pluto is not considered a planet so the truth about our Solar System has changed.
Then thats down to your teacher. We were taught there are nine planets that we know of, more may be found.
That pluto is now considered a dwarf planet is down to a change in status, not a change in fact
BSM1
What? Me worry?
Now you're just splitting hairs. The truth was, according to the facts at the time, that we had nine planets in our solar system. Now the truth is that we have eight planets in our solar system. The fact that the classification was subject to change means the truth was also subject to change. Now, before you say it, that Pluto is a planet is not a fact; that Pluto is a body in our Solar System is a fact. Again, truth has become subjective to fact.
BSM1
What? Me worry?
It wasn't down to any teachers, it was a scientific truth based on the information of the time. Now that information has been changed and the truth has changed right along with it (ie, we now have eight planets in our Solar System). See post #45.
BTW, your post makes my point. If we find more planets in our Solar System, then our truth about the system will have to change.
When you were in elementary school, the classification was such that Pluto was classified as a planet. The classification methods changed. Now it is not classified as a planet. The truths about Pluto didn't change, merely our way of subdividing the universe.
Anything classified as a planet under the old system would still be classified as a planet using the old parameters for classification. Anything classified as a planet under the new system would have been classified as a planet by those same criteria before. Out language changed, not the truth.
No, our classification is subject to the divisions we set up. When we change those divisions, we do NOT change the facts nor the truth. We merely change which boxes we assign to things.
This seems like two people arguing whether an animal is a cat or a chat or a gato or a mao. The language is used to describe the truths and facts, but it does not determine them.
Nope, by the scientific definition of the word truth it was not a scientific truth, but a commonly held belief
What my, and your post prove is that people hold different ideas on the meaning of truth.
This is because religion has no clear definition, no clear concept, of what 'truth' means. Hence there's no possibility of an objective test. It boils down to 'I like' and 'I don't like', nothing more.
It would make religious discussion a lot clearer if the word 'truth' were avoided altogether, and emotional position and inclination were clearly identified as such instead.
'Truth' should be left to its most common meaning: a statement is true to the extent that it corresponds with / conforms to / accurately reflects objective reality. That has the enormous advantage of an objective test for 'truth'.
Truth is not a "thing," and there are no higher or lower truths. Truth is a quality or a state. A statement is true if and only if (written IFF) it agrees with the facts as they exist in reality.To understand truth in cultivation of a spiritual path (religion) one see that when we begin the path we see truth one way, but when we cultivate our mind and body we can go deeper in to truth, so a novice can say, i see the truth. then a person who have attained more wisdom will come and say, No what you see is not truth, this is truth, and he explain his wisdom.
But his truth was not the highest truth. He only saw truth up to his own wisdom level.
So when we discuss, we all see truth from different levels. so you may think your answer is the correct, then someone comes and correct you. Do not get angry and think badly about what was corrected. ponder about what the other person said, and see if there was truth in his words
But you will find the answer within you
It is my firm view that a "spiritual path" which pretends that reality is not real is a false path, and once embarked upon it, the follower is lost. Anything and everything, or even nothing, can then be deemed to be "truth" depending on who is deciding. But all will be incorrect if whatever this "truth" is doesn't reflect reality.
BSM1
What? Me worry?
But the truth about Pluto did change, Pluto was no longer a planet in our solar system. You're making my point. The "truth" about Pluto as a planet hinged on the subjectivity of those who observed and classified it as such. Is it true that Pluto was the ninth planet in our solar system? Yes. Is that still the truth? No.
My truth is that the furry little feline that drops mice at my door step is a "cat", not anything else. To someone from another country this feline is something different. Are we both right? Yes. Why? Because truth is subjective.
Exactly! Truth is subjective to information available.
Wow! You guys are surely circling the wagons on this one, but our own posts prove my point.
Nope, the definition is quite precise, some people however gloss over the definition in order to massage sensibilities
I suspect I agree with you in principle, but I'm not sure about your example.
In the case of Pluto, the change of status followed from a taxonomic revision, so I'd suggest the more accurate statement is, 'It was once true that Pluto was classified as a planet, but it no longer is.'
A more hard-edged example would be, It was once true that the earth is flat, but it no longer is.
Or, it was once true that light propagated in the medium of the lumeniferous ether; but it no longer is.
Or, it was once false that the Higgs boson is an actual particle; but it is now true.
This is because science tries to maximize objectivity, and part of that maximizing is that truth based on observation of objective reality is determined by the consensus of the most qualified opinions for the time being.
Thus it's true that the Copenhagen interpretation of QM is correct; but it's been under pressure in recent decades, so you could argue that its status is becoming 'endangered'.
There are no absolute truths.
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Nope. Pluto is what it is, but our definitions changed. "According to the new definition, a full-fledged planet is an object that orbits the sun and is large enough to have become round due to the force of its own gravity. In addition, a planet has to dominate the neighborhood around its orbit. Pluto has been demoted because it does not dominate its neighborhood."
It is still, however, the 9th planet-like thing in our solar system, so that part remains the same. And before the new definition was adopted, it was the ninth planet (as then defined). So truth may be subjective in that sense, at least...that it adheres to whatever definitions we happen to be using at the time. (Meantime, it is still the 9th thing orbiting our Sun of vaguely planet size which is not also orbiting some other body, which would make it a satellite or moon.)
According to the new definition, a full-fledged planet is an object that orbits the sun and is large enough to have become round due to the force of its own gravity. In addition, a planet has to dominate the neighborhood around its orbit. Pluto has been demoted because it does not dominate its neighborhood.
No, I don't think that's so much subjective as translation. Cat, chat, gato, kucing...but all refer to the same notional animal. "Subjective" would allow us to introduce Chupacabra or gila monster to the possibilities.
To understand truth in cultivation of a spiritual path (religion) one see that when we begin the path we see truth one way, but when we cultivate our mind and body we can go deeper in to truth, so a novice can say, i see the truth. then a person who have attained more wisdom will come and say, No what you see is not truth, this is truth, and he explain his wisdom.
But his truth was not the highest truth. He only saw truth up to his own wisdom level.
So when we discuss, we all see truth from different levels. so you may think your answer is the correct, then someone comes and correct you. Do not get angry and think badly about what was corrected. ponder about what the other person said, and see if there was truth in his words
But you will find the answer within you
What is truth to one, may be a lie. One who considers themselves wise, may not be wise.
Isaiah 5:19, to those who say, “Let Him hurry and hasten His work so that we may see it! Let the plan of the Holy One of Israel come so that we may know it!” 20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who turn darkness to light and light to darkness, who replace bitter with sweet and sweet with bitter. 21 Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes and clever in their own sight.…
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
The absolute truth is beyond everyone's comprehension. But progressively humanity become more able to understand a higher level of Truth.To understand truth in cultivation of a spiritual path (religion) one see that when we begin the path we see truth one way, but when we cultivate our mind and body we can go deeper in to truth, so a novice can say, i see the truth. then a person who have attained more wisdom will come and say, No what you see is not truth, this is truth, and he explain his wisdom.
But his truth was not the highest truth. He only saw truth up to his own wisdom level.
So when we discuss, we all see truth from different levels. so you may think your answer is the correct, then someone comes and correct you. Do not get angry and think badly about what was corrected. ponder about what the other person said, and see if there was truth in his words
But you will find the answer within you
It is like different grades. When the child is in grade one, he is taught grade one book. But when he learned grade one, and is ready to know more, he is taught grade two...and so forth. So, is with human civilization.
I would guess that Pluto dominates 4 of its moons.
sealchan
Well-Known Member
To understand truth in cultivation of a spiritual path (religion) one see that when we begin the path we see truth one way, but when we cultivate our mind and body we can go deeper in to truth, so a novice can say, i see the truth. then a person who have attained more wisdom will come and say, No what you see is not truth, this is truth, and he explain his wisdom.
But his truth was not the highest truth. He only saw truth up to his own wisdom level.
So when we discuss, we all see truth from different levels. so you may think your answer is the correct, then someone comes and correct you. Do not get angry and think badly about what was corrected. ponder about what the other person said, and see if there was truth in his words
But you will find the answer within you
I prefer focusing on perspectives rather than levels. Individual experiences leave us with much different pathways toward the realization of personal value and meaning in an objective reality.
To understand truth in cultivation of a spiritual path (religion) one see that when we begin the path we see truth one way, but when we cultivate our mind and body we can go deeper in to truth, so a novice can say, i see the truth. then a person who have attained more wisdom will come and say, No what you see is not truth, this is truth, and he explain his wisdom.
But his truth was not the highest truth. He only saw truth up to his own wisdom level.
So when we discuss, we all see truth from different levels. so you may think your answer is the correct, then someone comes and correct you. Do not get angry and think badly about what was corrected. ponder about what the other person said, and see if there was truth in his words
But you will find the answer within you
Truth does not contradict itself. One truth does not contradict another. So if 5 men set out on a search for truth and find it they will find themselves arrive at the same destination and be united.