Truth or Comfort?

[1137]

We can (and do) pass on knowledge, which exists in others after we die. Human advances over time are due to cumulative knowledge.

Well I wasn't just talking on a small scale. I hope you are sitting down for this; but every human is going to die, the whole species is going to die, all life on earth is going to die, and everything in the universe is eventually going to die.

Well, you're right about this - in the most roundabout way. You're right that "the universe would not even notice" - because the universe isn't an entity that CAN notice anything.

I stupidly thought you would understand what I meant. I never learn.

What do you think this proves, by the way? We affect reality every day in small and large ways. Reality doesn't have to be something huge and profound in order to be affected in very real ways.

Really, what are the huge changes we have made on the universe? Because as far as I know, we haven't really done anything except interact with other humans and mess with our planet here.

I am not sure you realize how unspecial we really are. I don't like tearing down people's hopeful beliefs that we are fantastic and highly important beings, but maybe you should check this out.

[youtube]0fKBhvDjuy0[/youtube]
Powers of Ten

One day, Alois noticed the curve of Maria's back when she bent over the stove. His eyes were drawn to this because she had tied her apron strings into a jaunty little bow that sat just right on her hips. Maria turned her long, vulnerable neck to look at him over her shoulder and he noticed a familiar, moist flush on her cheeks - and felt a familiar jolt of desire. He made his move - and the beans boiled over. Nine months later Adolph was born.

All because of that silly little bow.

(I thought it was about time to throw Hitler into the mix.)

Reality - an apron, a woman, a man, and some beans. Reality - Auschwitz. The devil is in the details.

Hitler affected the human race, not really the universe.

What? Is this a typo or do you honestly think this makes sense?

Maybe try reading it in contex? I don't know how to help you here.

Will you please give us your definition of "subjective" and "objective" as related to reality - and morality?

ob·jec·tive/əbˈjektiv/
Adjective: Not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.


sub·jec·tive/səbˈjektiv/
Adjective: Based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.

Seriously, I might ask the admins if we can sticky a thread explaining the usefulness of Google.

 

[Willamena]

Well I wasn't just talking on a small scale. I hope you are sitting down for this; but every human is going to die, the whole species is going to die, all life on earth is going to die, and everything in the universe is eventually going to die.


Really, what are the huge changes we have made on the universe? Because as far as I know, we haven't really done anything except interact with other humans and mess with our planet here.

I am not sure you realize how unspecial we really are. I don't like tearing down people's hopeful beliefs that we are fantastic and highly important beings, but maybe you should check this out.


ob·jec·tive/əbˈjektiv/
Adjective: Not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.


sub·jec·tive/səbˈjektiv/
Adjective: Based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.

Seriously, I might ask the admins if we can sticky a thread explaining the usefulness of Google.

We're here now. We exist, and objectively speaking, even if we die out we will have existed. How does that impact any "purpose" that anyone may determine for us as a species? For instance, a car is built for a purpose, to transport us from point A to point B. It breaks down, and is send to the compactor to become a hunk of metal. Does that mean the car had no purpose?

Edit: You can say we've given ourselves the purpose as a species, but we've given the car its purpose, too. Else, it's just a lump of metal.

 

[Me Myself]

Google is google. She asked for your definition.

I don't really know what you mean by "the universe wont even notice" either.

Why does it need to become such a hostile debate?

 

[InChrist]

Yes as can be seen by absolutely none of the verses in his book. Or do you have one that demonstrates his love?

[FONT=&quot]For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us Eph. 2:4[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 John 4: 8-10[/FONT]

Like the morality the god of the bible uses.

[/quote]

[FONT=&quot]You are getting off-topic into an emotionally charged, in-depth subject that is probably already a thread somewhere else. I will just say while I think it is admirable of you to be concerned about justice and the cruel treatment of others through events of genocide I also think it is arrogant and presumptuous on the part of human beings to bring God the Creator down to human level and then pronounce judgment upon Him without knowing all that He knows about any given situation you may be referring to as genocide in the bible.[/FONT]

 

[InChrist]

Well I wasn't just talking on a small scale. I hope you are sitting down for this; but every human is going to die, the whole species is going to die, all life on earth is going to die, and everything in the universe is eventually going to die.


I am not sure you realize how unspecial we really are. I don't like tearing down people's hopeful beliefs that we are fantastic and highly important beings, but maybe you should check this out.

I wonder what you are reading lately that fill your thoughts with such depressing ideas... maybe one of Richard Dawkin's books. Actually the scriptures do say that this earth is dying and passing away because it is corrupted by sin. It will all be done away with, but God will create a new heaven and earth and those who have new resurrected life in Christ will live forever.

So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.” 1 Corinthians 15:54


I will ransom them from the power of the grave;
I will redeem them from death.
O Death, I will be your plagues!
O Grave, I will be your destruction!
Pity is hidden from My eyes.” Hosea 13:14



"Atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning. . ." – Mere Christianity C.S. Lewis

 

[blackout]

Well I wasn't just talking on a small scale. I hope you are sitting down for this; but every human is going to die, the whole species is going to die, all life on earth is going to die, and everything in the universe is eventually going to die.

I stupidly thought you would understand what I meant. I never learn.

Really, what are the huge changes we have made on the universe? Because as far as I know, we haven't really done anything except interact with other humans and mess with our planet here.

I am not sure you realize how unspecial we really are. I don't like tearing down people's hopeful beliefs that we are fantastic and highly important beings, but maybe you should check this out.

[youtube]0fKBhvDjuy0[/youtube]
Powers of Ten

Hitler affected the human race, not really the universe.

Maybe try reading it in contex? I don't know how to help you here.

ob·jec·tive/əbˈjektiv/
Adjective: Not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.


sub·jec·tive/səbˈjektiv/
Adjective: Based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.

Seriously, I might ask the admins if we can sticky a thread explaining the usefulness of Google.

Sentience in the UniVerse is a wonder'full thing.

Awareness of Self and Other/Surroundings and the interaction thereof.

We are the UniVerse Observing itself.
You may not find that 'important',
but it is fascinating at any rate.

Without the Observer,
the UniVerse is not fascinating.
It just is.

 

[Willamena]

Are we special in how unspecial we really are?

 

[Jacksnyte]

I am surprised to find that anyone voted 'comfort'! I always thought of religion as an attempt to reach truth. Does this mean that some prefer to bury their heads in the sand of 'comfort' rather than aim for truth?!?

 

[1137]

I wonder what you are reading lately that fill your thoughts with such depressing ideas... maybe one of Richard Dawkin's books. Actually the scriptures do say that this earth is dying and passing away because it is corrupted by sin. It will all be done away with, but God will create a new heaven and earth and those who have new resurrected life in Christ will live forever.

I haven't been reading anything lately. Just coming to terms with reality, although that makes it sound negative. I see nothing depressing about it personally, I think that is just individual opinion.

 

[1137]

Google is google. She asked for your definition.

I don't really know what you mean by "the universe wont even notice" either.

Why does it need to become such a hostile debate?

Haha well the funny thing about me is I use actual definitions, not just ones I make up. What I meant by the universe will not notice is if human life on earth died it wouldn't change anything. Sure, on a small scale there would be the change of no human life, but so? Nothing here would change except less humans. The natural world woud work the same way. The earth would still orbit the sun, space would keep expanding, we have no unique importance.

 

[blackout]

Sentience in the UniVerse is a wonder'full thing.

Awareness of Self and Other/Surroundings and the interaction thereof.

We are the UniVerse Observing itself.
You may not find that 'important',
but it is fascinating at any rate.

Without the Observer,
the UniVerse is not fascinating.
It just is.

We are the 'I's/eyes of the UniVerse.

 

[Willamena]

Haha well the funny thing about me is I use actual definitions, not just ones I make up. What I meant by the universe will not notice is if human life on earth died it wouldn't change anything. Sure, on a small scale there would be the change of no human life, but so? Nothing here would change except less humans. The natural world woud work the same way. The earth would still orbit the sun, space would keep expanding, we have no unique importance.

You know, don't you, that "actual definitions" that are not ones someone "made up" are in fact... objective meanings.

But while there's "so?" in your explanation, objectively there's equally not "so?" Just as any significance we have is meaningless, any insignificance we have must also be meaningless. The conclusion you ought to reach with this logic is that we are no more insignificant than we are significant.


If we truly are insignificant, then the universe has noticed.

 

[Kathryn]

I haven't been reading anything lately. Just coming to terms with reality, although that makes it sound negative. I see nothing depressing about it personally, I think that is just individual opinion.

INDIVIDUAL OPINION.

That's right. It's your opinion. It's not the opinion of many others. You can choose any opinion you like - just don't expect others to give it the same importance or validity that you do.

And don't assume they don't understand what you're trying to say. I for one understand it - I just don't buy it.

As for your definitions, I know full well what the definition of objective and subjective is. I asked for YOUR personal definition of "objective meaning" and "subjective meaning."

What do you mean by those terms? Do you even know?

 

[1137]

INDIVIDUAL OPINION.

That's right. It's your opinion. It's not the opinion of many others. You can choose any opinion you like - just don't expect others to give it the same importance or validity that you do.

And don't assume they don't understand what you're trying to say. I for one understand it - I just don't buy it.

Yes it is my individual opinion to accept truth no matter what, and I personally do not let it depress me. Also, if you are so against my position it is interesting the only argument you are providing is "I don't buy it".

As for your definitions, I know full well what the definition of objective and subjective is. I asked for YOUR personal definition of "objective meaning" and "subjective meaning."

What do you mean by those terms? Do you even know?

Well, again, I just use real definitions. So a subjective meaning is a a personally created one and an objective meaning is a set purpose for us all, which does not exist. For exame, a subjective meaning I have created is to seek truth over comfort. An objective meaning would be something like we are here to tend to the earth, we are here to worship God, we need to achieve Gnosis, reconnect with the All, seek enlightenment, we are here becaus we are something else is experiencing through us. Again, notice I vs We. It's quite simple I am not sure what else to say.

 

[1137]

You know, don't you, that "actual definitions" that are not ones someone "made up" are in fact... objective meanings.

Since you still are not understanding what I mean by existence is meaningless after 20 pages I am going to just walk away out of self respect.

 

[blackout]

Doors, if there WAS some meaning to existence,
WHOSE meaning would it be?

What type of meaning would qualify?

 

[1137]

Doors, if there WAS some meaning to existence,
WHOSE meaning would it be?

What type of meaning would qualify?

I suppose if there was meaning we would have the option of aliens or God haha. Being made by God to boost his ego, being supposed to reconnect with God, letting god live in you, or being made by aliens as a slave race or something new agey would be objective meanings.

 

[Willamena]

Since you still are not understanding what I mean by existence is meaningless after 20 pages I am going to just walk away out of self respect.

I understand your "meaninglessness of existence," I'm just not buying it. It's not existentialism, and not constructive nihilism.

Edit: I take part of that back, there is much I don't understand. In post #53 you threw out an objective truth, that we are made by chance, as evidence that there is no objective meaning, and yet the one isn't implied in the other. You take a meaningful existence for people to be having no death, and yet that doesn't describe the reality of life at all. There is death, and death is meaningful. We don't live forever--shouldn't a "meaningful existence" for people describe reality?

 

[1137]

I understand your "meaninglessness of existence," I'm just not buying it. It's not existentialism, and not constructive nihilism.

It's part of them, the part we're discussing.

 

[blackout]

I suppose if there was meaning we would have the option of aliens or God haha. Being made by God to boost his ego, being supposed to reconnect with God, letting god live in you, or being made by aliens as a slave race or something new agey would be objective meanings.

Why are gods and aliens more qualified than we are
to give our lives objective meaning?

What about the men on earth
who act as gods and alien oppressors?
(over other men)

I don't think you're really talking about 'meaning' here,
but origin.
For some reason you are equating 'being made by some other intelligent being or race' with 'meaning'.

Are your mother and father intelligent?
Did they create you?

How is this any more or less a 'meaning' than if you were created in a lab by space aliens
living on another planet?