Truth or Comfort?

[1137]

How do you create "meaning?" How would you define that term? And if you "create meaning," in your life, can that "meaning" bleed over into other lives and give them meaning that they didn't even create?

Sorry, but this sounds like a bunch of depressing hooey to me - guess that's why I'm not an existentialist!

How do we not create meaning? I mean that meaning is just as fake as objective meaning, it is kind of like lying to yourself. What do you want to do in your life? You set goals for yourself, right? There, you have created meaning. By other lives do you mean other people or reincarnation? I would rather accept "depressing hooey" over mythological and uselessly hopeful overgrown fairy tales.

If life is meaningless and absurd (not to mention often very painful) why wouldn't we be depressed? Why would we "do anything to make the best out of a meaningless existence?" What would give our actions any meaning or merit whatsoever? Would it be wrong to kill yourself, or heck, even others? Why or why not? If life is meaningless, it seems such actions would be meaningless as well. Why not save everyone a lot of long term pain and expense and hassle?

Are you depressed? If not then you are living in a meaningless life just fine! Why not make the best of it? Everyone is asking why, why, why. Why not? There is no reason to live but there is no reason to die. There is plenty of time to be dead. We give our actions meaning, even though that is just personal and there still really is none. I have no problem with suicide, but I think we can set up a moral system based on logic. We are just stuck in a meaningless life here together, all free to make our own way. And there is the key, free. So, doing something like killing or raping is going to interfere with anothers freedom, therefore "immoral". Just gotta think a little!

 

[InChrist]

How existentialist of you! Kierkegaard said just about the same thing.

Not quite, Kierkegaard posited that it is the individual who is responsible for giving meaning to life. This is a humanistic view. The biblical position is that it is the Creator who gives meaning.

 

[Willamena]

Are you depressed? If not then you are living in a meaningless life just fine! Why not make the best of it? Everyone is asking why, why, why. Why not? There is no reason to live but there is no reason to die. There is plenty of time to be dead. We give our actions meaning, even though that is just personal and there still really is none. I have no problem with suicide, but I think we can set up a moral system based on logic. We are just stuck in a meaningless life here together, all free to make our own way. And there is the key, free. So, doing something like killing or raping is going to interfere with anothers freedom, therefore "immoral". Just gotta think a little!

If you're going to go with "meaninglessness" that exists for no reason, then "meaning" equally exists for no reason. The world, then, is as meaningful as it is meaningless.

 

[Orias]

Not quite, Kierkegaard posited that it is the individual who is responsible for giving meaning to life. This is a humanistic view. The biblical position is that it is the Creator who gives meaning.

Its not humanistic as in the group or concept but humanistic as in being essential to the existential.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Not quite, Kierkegaard posited that it is the individual who is responsible for giving meaning to life. This is a humanistic view. The biblical position is that it is the Creator who gives meaning.

You are very very mistaken.

"With respect to the earthly, one needs little, and to the degree that one needs less, the more perfect one is. A pagan who knew how to speak only of the earthly has said that the deity is blessed because he needs nothing, and next to him the wise man, because he needs little. In a human beings relationship to God, it is inverted: the more he needs God, the more deeply he comprehends that he is in need of God, and then the more he in his need presses forward to God, the more perfect he is."


"It is the saddest thing of all if a human being goes through life without discovering that he needs God."

"If this view, that to need God is man’s highest perfection, makes life more difficult, it does this only because it wants to view man according to his perfection and bring him to view himself in this way, because in and through this view man learns to know himself. And for the person who does not know himself, his life is, in the deeper sense; indeed a delusion. But such a delusion is rarely due to a person’s not discovering the capabilities entrusted to him, to his not trying to develop them as much as possible in conformity with his given situation."

If you haven't read Kierkegaard then why are you criticizing Kierkegaard?

 

[1137]

If you're going to go with "meaninglessness" that exists for no reason, then "meaning" equally exists for no reason. The world, then, is as meaningful as it is meaningless.

Um, no. There is no meaning, therefore meaning does not exist at all. Any supposed meaning you find is still meaningless. No matter what you do, learn, believe, you will be dead and you will not have that knowledge or interactions anymore. Even if you leave lingering effects, all life on earth will one day be dead. And, even if all life on Earth died right now, it would not affect the universe in the slightest.

 

[InChrist]

You are very very mistaken.

"With respect to the earthly, one needs little, and to the degree that one needs less, the more perfect one is. A pagan who knew how to speak only of the earthly has said that the deity is blessed because he needs nothing, and next to him the wise man, because he needs little. In a human beings relationship to God, it is inverted: the more he needs God, the more deeply he comprehends that he is in need of God, and then the more he in his need presses forward to God, the more perfect he is."


"It is the saddest thing of all if a human being goes through life without discovering that he needs God."

"If this view, that to need God is man’s highest perfection, makes life more difficult, it does this only because it wants to view man according to his perfection and bring him to view himself in this way, because in and through this view man learns to know himself. And for the person who does not know himself, his life is, in the deeper sense; indeed a delusion. But such a delusion is rarely due to a person’s not discovering the capabilities entrusted to him, to his not trying to develop them as much as possible in conformity with his given situation."

If you haven't read Kierkegaard then why are you criticizing Kierkegaard?

I'm not criticizing, but maybe I am mistaken. Thank you for the quotes.

 

[Willamena]

Um, no. There is no meaning, therefore meaning does not exist at all.

Words have meaning, therefore meaning exists. Sense, not so much.

Simply denying meaning doesn't make sense. You gotta have a reason to do it.

Any supposed meaning you find is still meaningless. No matter what you do, learn, believe, you will be dead and you will not have that knowledge or interactions anymore. Even if you leave lingering effects, all life on earth will one day be dead. And, even if all life on Earth died right now, it would not affect the universe in the slightest.

So, death robs the world of meaning? Death has meaning. To suggest that because things can die the world has no meaning doesn't make sense. Things are here now, alive--does that lend the world its meaning? If so, how can the world have no meaning now?

See? I knew this would become a metaphysical discussion...

 

[1137]

Words have meaning, therefore meaning exists. Sense, not so much.

Simply denying meaning doesn't make sense. You gotta have a reason to do it.

I don't think you are going to grasp this. Words only have meaning we created for them, but your ridiculous criticisms are not even logical. We are talking about life having objective meaning, but life is meaningless. There is no purpose for existence. Nothing else is relevent.

So, death robs the world of meaning? Death has meaning. To suggest that because things can die the world has no meaning doesn't make sense. Things are here now, alive--does that lend the world its meaning? If so, how can the world have no meaning now?

See? I knew this would become a metaphysical discussion...

It hasn't become metaphysical, it has become silly. People on these forums seem to have issues with definitions amd concepts. Existence is meaningless, as in it has no set or created purpose. It exists for no reason, just out of chance and chaos. Please stay focused on what the actual point is.

Yes, death shows the absurdity. We stay healthy, go to school, make money, and it is an absurd waste cause we are just worm food in the making.

 

[Willamena]

I don't think you are going to grasp this. Words only have meaning we created for them, but your ridiculous criticisms are not even logical. We are talking about life having objective meaning, but life is meaningless. There is no purpose for existence. Nothing else is relevent.

The meaning we create for them is the only meaning they have, or ever had. I'm not criticizing, and I'll stop questioning if you like. I'm just trying to defend existentialism against the idea that it arose from a vacuum. It has roots.

 

[1137]

The meaning we create for them is the only meaning they have, or ever had. I'm not criticizing, and I'll stop questioning if you like. I'm just trying to defend existentialism against the idea that it arose from a vacuum. It has roots.

But you are missing the whole point. Sure words have meaning, actions have and create (useless) meaning, but the existence of life, and everything, is meaningless as in it has no purpose or reason for existing.

 

[Willamena]

But you are missing the whole point. Sure words have meaning, actions have and create (useless) meaning, but the existence of life, and everything, is meaningless as in it has no purpose or reason for existing.

Why?

There's no connection drawn that explains why life is meaningless, other than that you (seem to) say so.

 

[1137]

Why?

There's no connection drawn that explains why life is meaningless, other than that you (seem to) say so.

mean·ing·less /ˈmēniNGlis/Adjective:
1. Having no meaning or significance.
2. Having no purpose or reason.

I really wish forum rules required users to use dictionaries and / or google

 

[Willamena]

mean·ing·less /ˈmēniNGlis/Adjective:
1. Having no meaning or significance.
2. Having no purpose or reason.

I really wish forum rules required users to use dictionaries and / or google

mean·ing
1. Having significance
2. To communicate something that is not directly expressed

But I'll stop asking now.

 

[Koldo]

I suspect the matter at hand here is: value.

Whereas one side argues that an universal and absolute meaning possesses more value than the subjective and collective, the other argues for equality ( or perhaps even more than this ) of value.

But i could be wrong...

 

[1137]

mean·ing
1. Having significance
2. To communicate something that is not directly expressed

But I'll stop asking now.

You are just proving my point. There is no significance to existence let alone life. No purpose, no meaning, no reason. Glad we settled that.

 

[Willamena]

You are just proving my point. There is no significance to existence let alone life. No purpose, no meaning, no reason. Glad we settled that.

(I think you can anticipate my response. )

If you say so.

 

[1137]

(I think you can anticipate my response. )

If you say so.

If you disagree, I'd like to know what the objective meaning is. If you cannot provide it, I ask you revote "comfort" to keep the poll honest.

 

[Willamena]

If you disagree, I'd like to know what the objective meaning is. If you cannot provide it, I ask you revote "comfort" to keep the poll honest.

But that wouldn't be honest.

Mulder was wrong.

 

[1137]

But that wouldn't be honest.

Mulder was wrong.

Well if you're under the impression that we exist for a purpose, that is comfort over truth.