"Truth" What is it?

[McBell]

All truth is not black or white, of course. I've never claimed it was.

But two claims which totally contradict each other cannot both be true. As for some religious beliefs (to humor you, since you seem fixated on that particular realm of truth or untruth), here are a few examples of beliefs which must be either true or untrue.

God exists.

God doesn't exist.

Both positions can't be true.

Jesus was fully human and fully divine.

Jesus was simply a human man.

Both positions can't be true.

So you are putting limits on god?
Or perhaps you are holding that our (meaning human) understanding is some sort of end all be all?

I wonder how the Bumble feels about that?

 

[McBell]

Mister Emu is right. What he is saying is that truth is truth whether we can verify it or not. Mt Everest was the highest mountain in the world before we knew it was the highest mountain in the world and before we could verify that in any scientific manner.

Conversely, I do not weigh 125 pounds no matter how much I believe I do, or how often I claim that I do. No matter how much I avoid getting on the scales, no matter how much I lie to my insurance company (therefore "documenting that I weigh 125 pounds," - it doesn't change the truth.

My scales could be wrong, in fact. They may TELL me I weigh 125. But I don't. That "fact" is not truth.

 

[Kathryn]

I don`t think anyone is arguing against this.
But how do we know it`s truth without verification?

For me to accept something as truth it must be verified in some manner.
I`m not so bullheaded as to need "irrefutable" evidence but some acceptable evidence is necessary.

Until I have evidence I figure "I don`t know" is a perfectly acceptable answer.

Nothing wrong with saying "I don't know." Heck, I say it all the time.

 

[Caladan]

Religiously speaking, people have different concepts of what "truth" is. There are "personal truths" and "absolute truths", or some use the words subjective and objective respectively. As long as people are working from different definitions in regard to their beliefs, is it any wonder that arguments go round and round?

So what is your definition of "truth" and how does it play into your religion?


Reminder, I'm asking for the definition of the word "truth", not what your "truth" is or what you consider the "truth" to be.

My definition of truth? a truth in a religious context?
I would'nt know that truth, even if it slapped me accross my face.
really, what is truth if not casting a fishing net into thin air and trying to catch wishes.
In my religion however. truth would be the confrontation with the state of affairs. meaning, being truthful with yourself.
not with false prophets and preachers or with the promises of the world of tomorrow.
it would mean that you have no will other than to work your passion until you rest. and then work your passion the next day all over again. until you refine your work more and more with each day. making your work the foundation of your religion.

 

[blackout]

My definition of truth? a truth in a religious context?
I would'nt know that truth, even if it slapped me accross my face.
really, what is truth if not casting a fishing net into thin air and trying to catch wishes.
In my religion however. truth would be the confrontation with the state of affairs. meaning, being truthful with yourself.
not with false prophets and preachers or with the promises of the world of tomorrow.
it would mean that you have no will other than to work your passion until you rest. and then work your passion the next day all over again. until you refine your work more and more with each day. making your work the foundation of your religion.

... and in that way,
your very Life,
your Self Becoming,
becomes your religion.

Far too many people sacrifice themSelves
at the foot of other people's altar/alters.
(ie, con'form themselves to other people's truths)

 

[doppelganger]

Far too many people sacrifice themSelves
at the foot of other people's altar/alters.
(ie, con'form themselves to other people's truths)

Right. Letting someone else be the hero of your life because of fear. It's easier to confront fear and express your own values than to live up to other peoples' expectations (which you won't anyway). All the money, fame and distractions in the world can't help a person who is afraid to look at his/her self and live fully and authentically.

 

[Caladan]

... and in that way,
your very Life,
your Self Becoming,
becomes your religion.

Far too many people sacrifice themSelves
at the foot of other people's altar/alters.
(ie, con'form themselves to other people's truths)

Exactly.
why not live as the hero of your favourite myth for a day, and find out just how great you are and how important life is.

 

[blackout]

Right. Letting someone else be the hero of your life because of fear. It's easier to confront fear and express your own values than to live up to other peoples' expectations (which you won't anyway). All the money, fame and distractions in the world can't help a person who is afraid to look at his/her self and live fully and authentically.

How many people opt for a side role
in the story of their own life.
Or allow others to create/dictate
'their own Character' for them.
This is the story of Your Own Life!
It is YOURS to author.
Why would you make yourSelf the sidekick?
*laughs over Hero and Ando*

Gawd I loved "Heroes".

I thought the series ended very poignantly,
with Claire's "leap of faith".
How can you live fully and authentically,
if you are always hiding your True Self
from the world?
It takes true courage, to be different
in the face of a fear filled world.

Exactly.
why not live as the hero of your favourite myth for a day, and find out just how great you are and how important life is.

We can be those Heroes.
The Heroes and Gods of Mythology
are real, active, vital,
in that they live vicariously
through us.
At the same time
we Become More,
Realize ourSelves more fully,
realize our own role as hero and god,
as we live vicariously
through them.

I love you guys. :hug:

 

[sirat]

salaam friends,

I read a philosophy book which used truth and Truth to mean different things. The first was subjective and good for only certain boundary conditions and Truth is more of the lasting, not subject to change variety. For example, "Barack Obama is president" is true, because it will at some point be false.

Truth, or The Truth, al Haqq, is one of God's names. According to sufi philosophy, these names are the active agents, the words which cause the other things to come into being. So the existance of truth and its reflection is actually proof and indication of the existance of God. Perhaps you will recognize this concept in the phrase, the truth will set you free. There are lots of those types of quotes:

45. ALAS! ALAS! O LOVERS OF WORLDLY DESIRE!
Even as the swiftness of lightning ye have passed by the Beloved One, and have set your hearts on satanic fancies. Ye bow the knee before your vain imagining, and call it truth. (Baha'u'llah, The Persian Hidden Words)

As for wisdom, what she is, and how she came up, I will tell
you, and will not hide mysteries from you: but will seek her out
from the beginning of her nativity, and bring the knowledge of
her into light, and will not pass over the truth.
(Deuterocanonical Apocrypha, The Book of Wisdom)

23:23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.
(King James Bible, Proverbs)

5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth
(King James Bible, Ephesians)

Indeed, I could go on for many quotes from many writings of many tradition.

The search for truth leads one closer to God, it is inevitable, if not perhaps always a completed journey for some in this lifetime. Those who reject truth because it conflicts with their idea of religion, well the truth will argue with them on its own until they see that God doesn't lie in scripture or in how he made the world(s).

The truth can be, or is very upsetting. Consider al Hallaj who was killed for claiming "I am the Truth".

The Master, Rumi writes, from Hallaj I learned to hunt lions, but I became something hungrier than a lion.

The Truth is like that. It is hungrier than a lion.

wa salaam
sirat

 

[waitasec]

Right. Letting someone else be the hero of your life because of fear. It's easier to confront fear and express your own values than to live up to other peoples' expectations (which you won't anyway). All the money, fame and distractions in the world can't help a person who is afraid to look at his/her self and live fully and authentically.

Exactly.
why not live as the hero of your favourite myth for a day, and find out just how great you are and how important life is.

How many people opt for a side role
in the story of their own life.
Or allow others to create/dictate
'their own Character' for them.
This is the story of Your Own Life!
It is YOURS to author.
Why would you make yourSelf the sidekick?
*laughs over Hero and Ando*

Gawd I loved "Heroes".

I thought the series ended very poignantly,
with Claire's "leap of faith".
How can you live fully and authentically,
if you are always hiding your True Self
from the world?
It takes true courage, to be different
in the face of a fear filled world.



We can be those Heroes.
The Heroes and Gods of Mythology
are real, active, vital,
in that they live vicariously
through us.
At the same time
we Become More,
Realize ourSelves more fully,
realize our own role as hero and god,
as we live vicariously
through them.

I love you guys. :hug:

frubals to all of you!!!
:flower2:

 

[Caladan]

frubals to all of you!!!
:flower2:

Thank you! :flower2: