Trying To Understand Atheism

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Likewise, to be an atheist is a choice. You have considered the idea of a higher power and have rejected its plausibility.

"Higher power" and "god" aren't interchangeable. Some atheists accept the existence of "higher powers" that aren't gods. And plenty of gods aren't "higher powers".

Such is hardly non-commitment no matter how much you insists otherwise. It's not an "absence" of theism, it a rejection of it. No one self-aware has an "absence" of theism, they either assent to it or reject it. Which is why I have been saying this whole time that to define atheism as an absence of theism is nonsense. It is a meaningless word game.

You're the one playing word games. "Theism" isn't a single concept that can be accepted or rejected in one fell swoop. It's a category made up of uncountably many separate concepts.

By demanding that theists reject gods as a category, what you're implying is that:

- to be an atheist, you have to reject gods you haven't even heard of. IOW, atheists are necessarily closed-minded.

- to be an atheist, you have to reject gods that are unfalsifiable. IOW, atheists are necessarily irrational.

You talked about word games; how about the game you're playing? You're trying to push a definition for atheism that would imply that thoughtful, intelligent people can't be atheists by definition.

I'm not okay with you trying to foist this bigoted "definition" on the rest of us any more than if you were trying to define a race of people in a way that includes them being lazy.

Maybe you're too wrapped up in one specific type of monotheism to see that there's more to theism than your particular religion. I hope this is the case, because the alternative reflects pretty badly on your motives.

 

[MonkeyFire]

Where's the atheist who doesn't "believe" in God. More like an agnostic.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Where's the atheist who doesn't "believe" in God. More like an agnostic.

Agnostic and atheist aren't mutually exclusive terms. You can be both. Agnostic atheism - Wikipedia

 

[MonkeyFire]

Agnostic and atheist aren't mutually exclusive terms. You can be both. Agnostic atheism - Wikipedia

I'm saying there may be atheist who rationalize God himself as an atheist.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Where's the atheist who doesn't "believe" in God. More like an agnostic.

Agnostics can be atheists or theists.

 

[LuisDantas]

Where's the atheist who doesn't "believe" in God. More like an agnostic.

Most of us conform to that description, you know. Come to think of it, very few indeed would not.

I'm saying there may be atheist who rationalize God himself as an atheist.

What?

 

[paarsurrey]

Your mileage may vary, but rather often I find an atheist who openly admits they do not believe there is any reason to believe gods actually exist, but then refuses to accept the logically identical position that they believe there are no gods in the universe. I find this very strange. If an atheist sees no reason to believe in gods, why would they not believe the universe has no gods, or that this outcome is more likely? To me it always seemed like a burden of proof game, avoiding belief to avoid having to support your position. But am I missing a way where you can believe gods are unlikely but don't believe the universe is godless? I mean the only other option I can see besides neutrality or ignorance is that there is evidence for gods, so they likely exist.

G-d does exist.
There is nothing about Atheism that needs understanding. It is plain misunderstanding. Right? Please
Regards

 

[MonkeyFire]

Most of us conform to that description, you know. Come to think of it, very few indeed would not.

What?

God would know. Once it was spoken that faith or know were nihilistic.

 

[LuisDantas]

God would know. Once it was spoken that faith or know were nihilistic.

I honestly don't understand what you mean here.

 

[LuisDantas]

G-d does exist.
There is nothing about Atheism that needs understanding. It is plain misunderstanding. Right? Please
Regards

Wrong.

 

[MonkeyFire]

Agnostics can be atheists or theists.

Why would God believe? How could there be Love, Authority, Reason, and How in one ship.

 

[MonkeyFire]

I honestly don't understand what you mean here.

God would know, and faith is the naught of knowledge, right? Thats what an atheist can say and not believe but know in God.

 

[LuisDantas]

God would know, and faith is the naught of knowledge, right?

I prefer to use somewhat more ambitious definitions of faith, myself.

As for God knowing, that is one among many reasons why I am certain that there is nothing wrong in Atheism.

Thats what an atheist can say and not believe but know in God.

An atheist can say many things, and often does. I fear I am still having trouble parsing what you say.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Why would God believe? How could there be Love, Authority, Reason, and How in one ship.

I think you're going to have to rephrase this if you want me to respond. I can't even parse what you're trying to say, let alone figure out an intended meaning.

 

[MonkeyFire]

I think you're going to have to rephrase this if you want me to respond. I can't even parse what you're trying to say, let alone figure out an intended meaning.

How can Love be the most powerful thing in the world if there's Power himself.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

How can Love be the most powerful thing in the world if there's Power himself.

I still have no idea what you're talking about. Sorry.

And I never said that love is the most powerful thing in the world.

 

[paarsurrey]

Wrong.

And one's arguments please.
Regards

 

[LuisDantas]

And one's arguments please.
Regards

Come on, Paarsurrey. You are not even trying now.

Do you truly expect atheists to just accept that they are wrong because you prefer to believe so?

You would have to argue your point instead of demanding those who disagree with you to submit to your convenience just because.

But if you still need an argument, what about: God did not choose to make everyone aware of his existence, so it is not for men to decide that he was mistaken in that choice. Whether that is so because God does not want atheism to fail to exist or because God himself does not exist as such is of secondary concern, if even that.

A better argument is that any honest examination of facts shows that belief in God is something to be understood and accepted when it happens, but never encouraged and certainly not expected, let alone demanded.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Your mileage may vary, but rather often I find an atheist who openly admits they do not believe there is any reason to believe gods actually exist, but then refuses to accept the logically identical position that they believe there are no gods in the universe. I find this very strange. If an atheist sees no reason to believe in gods, why would they not believe the universe has no gods, or that this outcome is more likely? To me it always seemed like a burden of proof game, avoiding belief to avoid having to support your position. But am I missing a way where you can believe gods are unlikely but don't believe the universe is godless? I mean the only other option I can see besides neutrality or ignorance is that there is evidence for gods, so they likely exist.

I don't understand. There is no gods/deities so the universe is godless. There isn't ignorance in knowing something does not exist and saying it does not. Many atheist want evidence and maybe its because some may still have a feeling god may exist they just have no reason to believe it does. Others, like myself, have no reason to ask for evidence because belief in deities and trying to believe one exist is, well to put it bluntly, a waste of time.

It helps many other, but I find solace in other ways than deities and needing prove of them. So, maybe this is generalization or am I not understanding the question?

 

[paarsurrey]

Come on, Paarsurrey. You are not even trying now.

Do you truly expect atheists to just accept that they are wrong because you prefer to believe so?

You would have to argue your point instead of demanding those who disagree with you to submit to your convenience just because.

But if you still need an argument, what about: God did not choose to make everyone aware of his existence, so it is not for men to decide that he was mistaken in that choice. Whether that is so because God does not want atheism to fail to exist or because God himself does not exist as such is of secondary concern, if even that.

A better argument is that any honest examination of facts shows that belief in God is something to be understood and accepted when it happens, but never encouraged and certainly not expected, let alone demanded.

Sorry.
I don't find any positive argument in the above post to deny existence of G-d as per attributes mentioned in Quran.
However, there is no compulsion for one to believe in Him.

Quran Verse (18:29)



Sahih International: And say, "The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve." Indeed, We have prepared for the wrongdoers a fire whose walls will surround them. And if they call for relief, they will be relieved with water like murky oil, which scalds [their] faces. Wretched is the drink, and evil is the resting place.
The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Word by Word Grammar, Syntax and Morphology of the Holy Quran

Regards