Oooh, wanna arm wrestle for dibs?
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Trying to understand disbelief
- Thread starter Reverend Rick
- Start date
Oooh, wanna arm wrestle for dibs?
technomage
Finding my own way
I'm not a "disbeliever" so much as simply one who lacks belief. But I find many aspects of religion to be utterly fascinating. I tend to specialize in the history of the Abrahamic religions, but I have a broad interest in the topic as a whole.
I spent 4 years debating Lord of the Rings on a forum. I like to think that this is a step up.
I largely agree with this, although I would hesitate to use the word "necessary" in connection with religion. I do see religion as in some sense inevitable, however. I think we are more or less genetically predisposed to some one kind or another form of religiosity. Perhaps the best we can do is work to make religions as benign as possible.
I did most of my religious studying when I was a theist and then as an agnostic. By the time I was done studying, I was not religious or affiliated with any spiritual ideas, and since then I've not done almost any religious studying except to round out certain areas where I was lacking before (like having read the Mukhya Upanishads for example). I'm basically done with religion, in other words, and have been for years.
Applying what I've studied to debates and discussions with real people, is different. That's still fun sometimes. And the broader fields of ethics and philosophy, are still interesting to me.
The cool thing about this forum is that it covers almost everything. So not only can I talk to people about religion, but I can talk about philosophy, movies, cooking, politics, etc. I've discussed/debated with you about politics, for example.
I actually would have left here a while ago if not for meeting friends here. I share detailed PMs with people, or talk openly with them in threads, and so in addition to my offline friends, they're an aspect of my social life.
Plus, religion and philosophy are kind of a taboo topic in society. I can talk about movies, cooking, and sometimes even politics with people in real life, but there is this understanding that you just don't really discuss religion or philosophy with people. Especially at work because you can get fired, but even outside of work, it just makes people uncomfortable. I think that taboo or understanding is what has kept religion fairly isolated from criticism, and keeps various beliefs fairly isolated from each other. For example, you can have a country where most people believe one religion, and another country where most people believe another religion, but the same isn't really true to anywhere near that extent for physics or medicine. And you can have a country, like say America, where most people are Christian but only a fraction have read the Bible and most haven't read other religious texts, then there are Muslims that have read Islamic literature but probably haven't read much of other religious texts, etc. Religious groups often stay fairly isolated in terms of sharing or comparing information. And many people have in their minds stereotypes of what other groups are like, without having met them much, or without realizing that people they have met, are that.
So offline, I can talk about all of the other stuff I want to talk about with people like movies, cooking, politics, or whatever, and then I can do sports or recreation with them as well, but then if I want to talk about religion or philosophy with a fairly large group of people that are also into those things, this is the place to do it.
It's interesting to see how people view the world in various ways, and it's interesting to challenge some of those viewpoints. You've said before that you've changed certain beliefs or certain stances on things, right? It's probably more from discussing things with people that disagree with you more than people that agree with you, I'd imagine. Stones get polished as they crash into each other.
Secularism, or people non-affiliated with religion, or vague spiritual agnosticism/syncretism, is statistically on the rise in many places, and I do think the internet is playing a role in that. It's a link between otherwise fairly isolated ideas, and a killer for certainty in one's own highly specific worldview.
And a thing to realize is that accounts of people here are only a fraction of their lives. So if an atheist has an account here and debates religion and then also politics or other things, it may seem like religion is a big interest of theirs. But then if religion has basically zero involvement in the rest of their lives including their discussions with other people offline, then that whole view is a more realistic picture of where their priorities and interests are. On the whole then, religion is often not a large topic to them, but to be able to discuss it in some way when society doesn't really allow for it elsewhere, they can go online, which is the fraction of their lives that you see.
I'd wrestle.Why just arm wrestling? Let's wrestle in general.
Just for the heck of it.
let me simplify my answser
IF some body realised he/she created , so there is a creator
so the creator suppose had the power to made rules .
I just wonder when some one ask me to show him GOD (my God)
IF someone did not see the moment of his own creation (inside his mother) , and will did not see what will happened after his death , how i suppose to show him "our" GOD ?!!!
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Drolefille
PolyPanGeekGirl
I want to believe but don't. That makes me technically an atheist but colloquially an agnostic. I personally seek belief, often to no avail.
Exactly! Many atheists have actually read the End User License Agreement instead of just scrolling to the bottom and clicking "I agree"
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What I'm wondering is rather:
How would someone who studies religion not become a disbeliever?
nazz
Doubting Thomas
I've become a disbeliever in many religious ideas I once held to be true. Does that count?
I find religion fascinating.
... though I also find the history of Rome fascinating. This doesn't mean I'd want to live in ancient Rome. My feelings about religion are kind of like that.
Also, religion has had a significant impact on humanity. Regardless of what role an atheist or secularist thinks religion should have in the future, we have to recognize the absolutely monumental effect that religion has had on human culture and society so far. In fact, I'd say that it's impossible to understand the history of human society to this point if we ignore religion.
Also, I like to challenge my beliefs and expose their flaws so that I can change them for the better. One of the best ways to challenge my beliefs that I've found is to throw them out in front of theists and watch them try to poke holes in them.
I'm not going to get that by hanging out on an all-atheist forum where everyone's congratulating themselves for their atheism.
gnostic
The Lost One
Hi Rick
I can only speak from my own experience, but I think that some atheists were former believers, ex-Christians, or ex-other religionists.
I was fascinated by mythology some times during primary school, don't know when exactly. Probably from the few books on Greek mythology, or possibly from one of those B-graded epic movies that I have seen as a child. I was far interested in the storytelling than any following or believing any one religion...most likely Christianity, because that was the only religion in Australian suburbs a that time.
I didn't read the bible until my sister join one church, when I was 16. I nearly join her church a year later, but I was still more interested in the stories than in belief or church. I was only minutes away from being baptized, the water was ready, when I changed my mind.
I came to realisation right there and then, that I would be joining my sister's church, because of her faith and belief, not my own.
I was only weeks away from joining another church, a year or so later, but got into heated argument with my pastor...over the issues of gnostic gospels (Thomas & Philip). I didn't these 2 gospels, because at that time, I couldn't find any translations (this was before the internet became available to the public).
My argument was over why the gospels was printed with the other NT. I didn't know these gospels were gnostic and heretic, at that time, I never heard of Gnosticism before, but my pastor knew of them, and was upset and angry that I wanted to know what they were about.i left him and his church, when he told me I was taken by the Devil and would burn in hell...yes, he was that type of preacher.
Looking back at this, I was partly to blame, because I didn't know about heresies or the Gnosticism, but he was to be blame for not being patient, open and honest with me.
Anyway, I lost interest in joining any church at that point, though I was still interested in the storytelling in the bible. But because of my studies in college took up a lot of time, I even lost interest in the bible, and didn't touch the bible again until 2000.
I only touch the bible again, when I was doing reading and research for the Grail, for Arthurian Legends pages in my website Timeless Myths.
I didn't read other parts of the bible again, until I joined another forum (free2code) that were hosting my website in 2003, and took part in their much smaller religion forum than RF.
My point is that I was always interested in myths, and that would include Genesis creation and flood stories, or stories about Moses, David and Jesus. I am just less interest in the church, belief, faith and their dogma, but good stories always fascinated me, even if I believe in them no more than I do Greek or Norse mythology.
I may not believe in the creation or the flood or Jesus miracles, and I may not follow church teaching, but I do attempt to understand the bible or Christianity, even though I may disagree with them.
Why do you think I create new topics or join threads (created at RF about genesis so frequently?
I can only speak from my own experience, but I think that some atheists were former believers, ex-Christians, or ex-other religionists.
I was fascinated by mythology some times during primary school, don't know when exactly. Probably from the few books on Greek mythology, or possibly from one of those B-graded epic movies that I have seen as a child. I was far interested in the storytelling than any following or believing any one religion...most likely Christianity, because that was the only religion in Australian suburbs a that time.
I didn't read the bible until my sister join one church, when I was 16. I nearly join her church a year later, but I was still more interested in the stories than in belief or church. I was only minutes away from being baptized, the water was ready, when I changed my mind.
I came to realisation right there and then, that I would be joining my sister's church, because of her faith and belief, not my own.
I was only weeks away from joining another church, a year or so later, but got into heated argument with my pastor...over the issues of gnostic gospels (Thomas & Philip). I didn't these 2 gospels, because at that time, I couldn't find any translations (this was before the internet became available to the public).
My argument was over why the gospels was printed with the other NT. I didn't know these gospels were gnostic and heretic, at that time, I never heard of Gnosticism before, but my pastor knew of them, and was upset and angry that I wanted to know what they were about.i left him and his church, when he told me I was taken by the Devil and would burn in hell...yes, he was that type of preacher.
Looking back at this, I was partly to blame, because I didn't know about heresies or the Gnosticism, but he was to be blame for not being patient, open and honest with me.
Anyway, I lost interest in joining any church at that point, though I was still interested in the storytelling in the bible. But because of my studies in college took up a lot of time, I even lost interest in the bible, and didn't touch the bible again until 2000.
I only touch the bible again, when I was doing reading and research for the Grail, for Arthurian Legends pages in my website Timeless Myths.
I didn't read other parts of the bible again, until I joined another forum (free2code) that were hosting my website in 2003, and took part in their much smaller religion forum than RF.
My point is that I was always interested in myths, and that would include Genesis creation and flood stories, or stories about Moses, David and Jesus. I am just less interest in the church, belief, faith and their dogma, but good stories always fascinated me, even if I believe in them no more than I do Greek or Norse mythology.
I may not believe in the creation or the flood or Jesus miracles, and I may not follow church teaching, but I do attempt to understand the bible or Christianity, even though I may disagree with them.
Why do you think I create new topics or join threads (created at RF about genesis so frequently?
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The Bullfrog
Member
I do it to understand the people behind the religion.
I Find studying anthropology and sociology fascinating. Studying religion is apart of that. People are interesting and religion is an important topic to understand. Them. Also we deal with people of various faiths everyday. Also religion and people's beliefs effect politics , society and culture.
Why just arm wrestling? Let's wrestle in general.
You can join us.
Triangle, baby. :yes: