Twelve year old commits suicide -- because he was taunted for being gay.

[We Never Know]

I believe you were.



No, you were reacting to them. There's a difference.



And there's absolutely nothing in there to suggest that @We Never Know was making excuses for anyone.



Strawman.



Also a strawman.



None of which adds up to "making excuses" for anything.

Far as I can see, all @We Never Know was doing was suggesting that there may have been motives related to the bullying that had nothing to do with religion. How does that amount to "making excuses"?

It's pretty muxh the same thing as this:

Thread title: "Man driving a ford pickup truck involved in drunken hit and run.

@We Never Know: "Do we know for a fact that it was a Ford"?

You: "I see, so you're saying it would be OK to run someone over if you do it in a Toyota"?

I usually try to ignore such post.

It usually works like this..

 

[Suave]

To your first point -- I've been saying the same thing for years. I know humanists (how I identify) who approve of the death penalty, which I find bizarre, but that's the way humans do, I suppose.

I was an extremely battered child, and from grade 3 up, I lived in an institution in Ottawa dedicated to helping kids like me, unable to relate because we had been so abused. And I can tell you, I learned the Golden Rule -- and understood how to apply it -- very early in my life. Certainly by the time I was 10.

I am sorry to read of your rough childhood, I am glad you managed to cope well with your difficult ordeal surviving as a well adjusted adult. I am very fortunate to have been pretty well nurtured. I was only abused by of all people, a youth pastor. Go figure,?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I believe you were.

Well, if your beliefs get to define my motives, then how could you be wrong?

I would never assume that my beliefs must of necessity apply to you.

 

[DNB]

I beg your pardon? "Desperate, hypocritical, allegations, insinuations?" You either need to provide better evidence for those allegations -- or apologize.

Allegation & Insinuation:
'...If this is so, then I think it is something that casts a black shadow on religion that needs to be discussed....'

 

[Suave]

I usually try to ignore such post.

It usually works like this..

View attachment 58229

I find most citrus to be very delicious, especially oranges. ..

 

[Quagmire]

Well, if your beliefs get to define my motives, then how could you be wrong?

Well, I think somebody should examine your motives, and since you obviously aren't going to make the effort . . .

I would never assume that my beliefs must of necessity apply to you.

I believe that fairness matters. Sorry, but I'm going to apply that to you whether or not you share that belief.

 

[robocop (actually)]

A grade 7 student in Shelbyville, Tennessee, took his own life on November 28. He did it because he was constantly being taunted -- for being gay, and for not being religious. Constantly told that he was going to Hell because "Jesus hates you."

And now he's dead. If this is so, then I think it is something that casts a black shadow on religion that needs to be discussed.

There is, however, another really interesting part of this little news item -- I can only find it in the BRITISH PRESS. Nobody in America, it seems, thinks it's important enough to comment on!.

What am I missing about this? Is this a fake story -- as I mentioned, I can find nothing in mainstream press, and I don't want to be accused of spreading misinformation, so any assistance from members would be greatly appreciated.

That's awful.

Many Christians personally want to be pro-choice and for gay marriage and such, they just have to go with the hive mind.

Some don't even personally want to be pro-choice and for gay marriage and such.

Anyway, I for one feel very bad for this 12 year old.

Oh and at BYU you can be openly gay and they admit you're born that way and don't try to change you.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

A grade 7 student in Shelbyville, Tennessee, took his own life on November 28. He did it because he was constantly being taunted -- for being gay, and for not being religious. Constantly told that he was going to Hell because "Jesus hates you."

And now he's dead. If this is so, then I think it is something that casts a black shadow on religion that needs to be discussed.

There is, however, another really interesting part of this little news item -- I can only find it in the BRITISH PRESS. Nobody in America, it seems, thinks it's important enough to comment on!.

What am I missing about this? Is this a fake story -- as I mentioned, I can find nothing in mainstream press, and I don't want to be accused of spreading misinformation, so any assistance from members would be greatly appreciated.

Let me say first that I'm for eliminating bullying by being strict with bullies. They only have a free reign because schools allow them such. When I taught 3rd grade, I did not allow bullying in my classroom, although it did pit me at time against my principal, who was more inclined to just give a talking to and sweep it under the carpet. Bullying, even if it is just verbal, can cause permanent psychological damage, scars that are carried for the rest of one's life. Everyone who sees someone being bullied has a moral obligation to interfere on behalf of the victim. "Do not stand idly by your brother's blood."

That said, I do not like this new trend of making it seem like LGBT people are the ones getting bullied. Sure, it happens to them, but it happens to many others as well. Basically, it happens to anyone who is different and emotionally sensitive -- they just seem to make good targets for this cruelty. You can be bullied not just for being gay, but for your race, your religion, the fact that your family can't afford stylish clothes, that you are over weight, that you have some sort of physical feature that is unappealing, that you are a smart nerd and can't catch a softball, and on an on. ALLLLL bullying is a terrible thing. Let's not make it an LGBT issue.

 

[firedragon]

And now he's dead. If this is so, then I think it is something that casts a black shadow on religion that needs to be discussed.

Have you ever considered why Stalin as an atheist was aggressively jailing homosexuals as an atheist. Do you blame it on atheism or do you try to find some avenue to blame it on religion?

 

[ajay0]

A grade 7 student in Shelbyville, Tennessee, took his own life on November 28. He did it because he was constantly being taunted -- for being gay, and for not being religious. Constantly told that he was going to Hell because "Jesus hates you."

I would say this is an another instance of religion being perverted to indulge in vilification campaigns of prejudice.

Saying "Jesus hates you" is as ridiculous as saying "Love hates you".

I think the kids got such demented ideas from their elders who were similarly brainwashed in school.

 

[Link]

A grade 7 student in Shelbyville, Tennessee, took his own life on November 28. He did it because he was constantly being taunted -- for being gay, and for not being religious. Constantly told that he was going to Hell because "Jesus hates you."

And now he's dead. If this is so, then I think it is something that casts a black shadow on religion that needs to be discussed.

There is, however, another really interesting part of this little news item -- I can only find it in the BRITISH PRESS. Nobody in America, it seems, thinks it's important enough to comment on!.

What am I missing about this? Is this a fake story -- as I mentioned, I can find nothing in mainstream press, and I don't want to be accused of spreading misinformation, so any assistance from members would be greatly appreciated.

And what happens if someone is called a bigot for opposing homosexuality and commits suicide? Should you re-think your stance on it?

 

[Clara Tea]

A grade 7 student in Shelbyville, Tennessee, took his own life on November 28. He did it because he was constantly being taunted -- for being gay, and for not being religious. Constantly told that he was going to Hell because "Jesus hates you."

And now he's dead. If this is so, then I think it is something that casts a black shadow on religion that needs to be discussed.

There is, however, another really interesting part of this little news item -- I can only find it in the BRITISH PRESS. Nobody in America, it seems, thinks it's important enough to comment on!.

What am I missing about this? Is this a fake story -- as I mentioned, I can find nothing in mainstream press, and I don't want to be accused of spreading misinformation, so any assistance from members would be greatly appreciated.

Christians cherry pick the bible....coming down hard on Gays, and ignoring President W. Bush's unprovoked attack on Iraq, killing a million people, and torture camps.

Driving someone to suicide is more immoral than allowing him to choose his own sexual identity.

Around 1900, a murder or suicide would have been front page news. Sadly, we've cheapened death with wars and deaths are so commonplace that they are no longer news worthy.

Some sanguine nations are so enured to death that they consider it commonplace, or think that it improves society (for example, Rome crucified thousands of people).

Christians need to get their priorities straight. Life comes first, then chastising little kids over their sexual preferences comes with a much lower priority (if at all). Judge not lest ye be judged (Jesus, Sermon on the Mount).

 

[Clara Tea]

I would say this is an another instance of religion being perverted to indulge in vilification campaigns of prejudice.

Saying "Jesus hates you" is as ridiculous as saying "Love hates you".

I think the kids got such demented ideas from their elders who were similarly brainwashed in school.

I agree.

 

[Clara Tea]

I knew before that time. I'm not sure why people think young people are so clueless about that stuff. Yeah, with some of them they are confused or trying things out but that's certainly not true for all. I had a friend who was basically a little fairy when we were kids and preteens (no offense meant, he was just so obvious) and no one was surprised when he ended up gay.

Until sex hormones kick in, I believe that preteens should refrain from carving in stone their sexual identities. They certainly should not be talked into cutting off parts that they may need later should they change their sexual identities.

 

[Clara Tea]

Then walk the talk.
If you both agree that bullying is a serious offense and that excommunication is proper for serious offenses, you must agree that excommunication is proper for bullying.

The Vatican is very reluctant to excommunicate because they need to communicate to fix people. This is why they allow the Mafia to continue attending their churches. Yet, they need to be more strict with the Mafia in order to fix them.

 

[Clara Tea]

I find it sad when you think of taking bullying seriously to sound like comedy, particularly in the cases where suicide is involved.

A Gay kid who commits suicide is most definitely not a comedy (unless one is very very sick mentally, and enjoys the death of other God's children).

In the US there are Matthew Shepherd laws. Matt was a Gay drug pusher who cheated clients. He was brutally murdered for that (not being Gay). But, because he incidentally was Gay, that seems to be the only thing that people considered.

 

[Clara Tea]

Children can get bullied for a variety of reasons. Any sign of weakness or perceived sign of weakness is exploitable.

Some suggestions: Teach your children to have better discipline over their emotions. Help them learn to strengthen their bodies using fitness and nutrition. Teach them about the value of respect, and honor. Encourage them to make connections with the people around them and to be loyal to their companions, so that their companions are in turn loyal to them. Make them understand that when conflict of any form arises in their lives- and it will- that they must take responsibility for their thoughts and actions, and they must find a way to overcome that conflict.

Shouldn't we, instead, teach the bullies not to bully? Maybe that is impossible.

Of course, we could get kids to follow the teachings of modern Christians (National Rifle Association....2nd Amendment gun rights.....thou shalt kill.....if they turn the other cheek, shoot it too).

Encouraging companions might be the same as forming street gangs. They might have street rumbles that kill gang members. They might make narcotics gangs and make money pushing.

I think that you are blaming the victim not the victimizer.

 

[Clara Tea]

Quite true!

1 John 4:20
If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love Godwhom he has not seen.

Maybe we could call in an exorcist for my brother?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

And what happens if someone is called a bigot for opposing homosexuality and commits suicide? Should you re-think your stance on it?

Really, you can't be serious. I don't think anybody has ever built a strawman that big before.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

A Gay kid who commits suicide is most definitely not a comedy (unless one is very very sick mentally, and enjoys the death of other God's children).

In the US there are Matthew Shepherd laws. Matt was a Gay drug pusher who cheated clients. He was brutally murdered for that (not being Gay). But, because he incidentally was Gay, that seems to be the only thing that people considered.

Have you researched that claim? Would you care to provide background and analysis?

I mean, that drug claim was raised in 2004 -- 6 years after his murder -- primarily BY his murderers. And interestingly it is something that even they never suggested during their trial.

So I'd be interested in how you came by the background information that supports your claim.