To me, idolatry is simply a pejorative term for what would otherwise be called theism.
Thankyou for the whole post.
I acknowledge all of your opinions, and because I am not a theist I don't feel strongly one way or t'other.
But I'll bet that Bahais, Muslims and Unitarian Christians might....
A god-conception is only a mental image. It is no less proper a subject for idolatry than a solid statue would be. And it is certainly no less suitable for dangerous misguidance either, as best illustrated by Islaam itself.
OK.......... but we could place many other kinds of humans into the idol-worship box if the above is true. Atheists have their idols, and quite as dangerous for misguidance, also graspable, tangible and desirable, such as mammon, status, power, etc. Now there is some real idol worship, right there.
There is no objective way to tell the concepts of theism and idolatry apart from each other. It is all in the intent and arbitrary decision of the person deciding to use one word over the other. Idolatry is not supposed to earn sympathy, while theism is. That is the entirety of their differentiation.
Sympathy for Theism? Fashions change, and so do taboos, and just now I reckon that a small group of folks following some idol cult might receive more interest and sympathy than many Christian or Islamic denominations.
Probably. I have given up on caring about what might offend Muslims, though. There is not much of a real point on worrying about that, and such has been the case for 1400 years or so.
I tell you straight, despite all the adverse incidents and reports from over the last couple of decades I don't feel strongly anti-Islam, quite like the Muslims that I have known, but most of those were westernised and just wanted a bit of street cred, some decent gear to wear, a smart motor and a nice girlfriend..... semi-secular, I suppose.
Even Muhammad himself basically said during his last hours of life that he expected Muslims to be lost in mutual disapproval unless specifically told what to believe in. And that has been proven quite correct, very consistently and depressingly at that.
Hadith of the pen and paper - Wikipedia
That is exactly as self-defeating a situation as it seems to be, and IMO amounts to admission from the prophet himself that reform was already a dire need during his lifetime.
Fair enough. I didn't know that.
That comes as no surprise whatsoever, since their doctrine is based in taking offense over people who might disagree with them, and that responsibility is self-imposed and theirs to resolve.
I can hardly accept the responsiblity for the flaws of Islaam the doctrine. I never expected nor encouraged anyone to take the Qur'an as some form of scripture - a role which it performs only with considerable difficulty and serious problems. It is just too twisted, too reliant on monotheism for the sake of monotheism. It just can't hold its own weight, and never did.
I can't really do more than listen to your view about the above...... honestly haven't thought enough about Islam to feel very strongly, or with any qualification.
But..... Did Muhammad wish that his features (picture) would
not be shown everywhere? Bahai's Bahauallah certainly didn't want his picture bandied about. The Jehovah Witnesses have nothing within their Kingdom Halls, no crosses, figures, lumps of rock or anything else. And in these examples (if the Islamic one is true) we can see that these religions did not want followers to focus upon individuals as idols.
Maybe those beautiful Mosques and definitely the Bahai Temples might be seen as idols..... the Bahai ones get featured heavily with much pride?
But the JWs...... nothing.
I think that idolatry is a very tricky concept, and perhaps not at all extant outside of the eye of the beholder. The very intent to practice belief in a deity (theism) creates, as you well point out, a mental image that is unavoidably constrained by the limitations of a human mind.
Theism, far as I am personally concerned, is one and the same thing as idolatry. But that only means that I am a pure atheist, and I do not expect people to "repent" from theism simply because that would make my life simpler and more efficient.
I don't think that your life would be more simple without Theism, just less colourful. An atheistic World could be one of natural evolution, and that could be terrifying...... survival of the fittest. Yuck.
People who think of idolatry as something to be avoided or corrected have a consequent duty to clearly define it - and I don't think that they can do that without presuming to have authority over other people's beliefs. Which is an arrogant presumption for anyone to have, of course.
Well, each person can define idolatry for themselves, or explain their group's opinion about it..... that's alright.
As a Deist I don't idolise all that is and is not, it just is........ if I idolise at all then I am just crazy about my wife.... honest. Mad about her. Bonkers. But I never thought of her as an idol, although I keep her image in my wallet and mobile phone....... wow.....
That is quite the self-imposed problem for Islaam, and to a very lesser degree Christianity.
I reckon that Christianity has just as many probs as Islam in this area, idols.... in fact Islam might even be more straight, more true to itself...... Christianity cherry-picks as it pleases to suit the occasion, it seems to me.
Now ancient religions are resurfacing in the West, I notice, and they can be honestly openly filled with idolatry and they seem to be attracting favourable attention?
In any case, religion is taking such a battering at this time that you must feel slightly less irritated by it all than ever before.... ?
