Two approaches towards reforming Islam: the Bahai Faith and Ahmadiyya Islam.

[Dawnofhope]

View attachment 23949 Even in 1953, South Delhi land was not this cheap. I have been coming to Delhi for all my life before settling down here for good 47 years ago. It was a gift from an anti-Hindu government to Bahais.

I have no idea about the market value of land in Delhi 65 years ago. Do you?

I’m presuming the government back then was democratically elected and Hindus make up about 80% of the population. Why do you think the government back then was anti-Hindu and why was the sale of land to Baha’is anti-Hindu?

 

[Vinayaka]

I noted your comments about Baha’is alleged lack of ‘action’ earlier in the thread. It’s not true at all. Baha’i’s are involved with charity and socioeconomic development at all levels.

So I am to take your word for this? That's proof?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Even in 1953, South Delhi land was not this cheap. I

Then I say one must applaud the foresight of the Guardian who encouraged the purchase of land at that time all around the world and I would thank the people that donated to purcahse the land. I see it was very fortunate the Baha'i purcahsed the land for the asking price when they did.

Now with 10,000 visiters a day, many businesses must benefit from the construction of this Temple and more importantly many prayers would be said there each day for a better world.

Back to the thread now.

Peace be with you, Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

I have no idea about the market value of land in Delhi 65 years ago. Do you?

I’m presuming the government back then was democratically elected and Hindus make up about 80% of the population. Why do you think the government back then was anti-Hindu and why was the sale of land to Baha’is anti-Hindu?

It's anti-Hindu because Hindus go away out of their way to appease minorities. In most social democracies, and India is no exception, minority rights are protected. It is to protect against the atrocities of genocide, amongst other forms of discrimination that have happened in far too many other places. So it's a really good thing in one sense, but in another, it harms the majority.

Can you imagine a minority, like the LGBQ, for example, not just getting equal rights under the law, but also special privileges that straight people don't get? So an analogy would be that it's not just the government allowing gay marriage, but also paying for it to the tune of a $10 000 grant per marriage.

This favoritism of minoritiy faiths in India has been going on a long time, and is substantial. Muslims can get grants to go to Mecca, Hindus can't get any grants for cheaper pilgrimages within India, Hindu temple incomes are taxed while other faiths go tax free. Imagine all donations going to the Delhi Bahai center being subjected to government tax at a high rate, for the government to use in any way they choose.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So I am to take your word for this? That's proof?

Here is one you can help with, it would be appreciated.

Friends Of Brilliant Star – Charity CH3020 – Supporting the Brilliant Stars of The Solomon Islands

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

Here is one you can help with, it would be appreciated.

Friends Of Brilliant Star – Charity CH3020 – Supporting the Brilliant Stars of The Solomon Islands

Regards Tony

You're suggesting I support Baha'i proselytising missions? You must realise I'm against proselytising by now.

What is happening to the indigenous religions of the Solomon Islands, or have they already been wiped out by the Christians before you?

Editted ... I found the answer, Tony ... sadly ... Religion in Solomon Islands - Wikipedia

I wonder how much culture and knowledge like herbology was lost.

 

[Dawnofhope]

So I am to take your word for this? That's proof?

Personally I do volunteer work at the local Christian medical centre that provides free assistance to those most in need. My wife (non-Baha’i) is a volunteer for Red Cross assisting Syrian refugees relocating to our city. We donate to several charities involved in caring for the environment and assisting children in less developed countries. Our Baha’i local community has insufficient resources for any major projects but assisted in developing the race unity speech awards that is now supported by the NZ Police force and the National human rights commission.

https://www.hrc.co.nz/your-rights/r...-relations/our-work/race-unity-speech-awards/

Our worldwide community has a history of extensive involvement in socioeconomic development and will continue to grow as resources permit.

Socioeconomic development and the Bahá'í Faith - Wikipedia

Social Action | What Bahá’ís Do

 

[Vinayaka]

Personally I do volunteer work at the local Christian medical centre that provides free assistance to those most in need. My wife (non-Baha’i) is a volunteer for Red Cross assisting Syrian refugees relocating to our city. We donate to several charities involved in caring for the environment and assisting children in less developed countries. Our Baha’i local community has insufficient resources for any major projects but assisted in developing the race unity speech awards that is now supported by the NZ Police force and the National human rights commission.

I've mentioned several times that of course individuals of any faith may be charitable. We're generally not privy to that. But my main point is that charity comes with strings in most cases within proselytising religions. Baha'i schools, for example, disguise it as 'ethics education', which I see as just plain deceptive.

 

[Vinayaka]

According to this Charity Data the entire gamut of charity work is to do with promotion of the Baha'i faith. Maybe it's an anomaly.

I have nothing against donating to religious institutions, when they uplift people as much as they do, but there's a difference, in my mind, between direct charity for anyone (like the Red Cross, Food banks, etc.) versus religious donations. I'm sure sometimes those lines do get blurred. The Salvation Army would be one such example. Religious groups also tend to be administrative top heavy in this regard.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I've mentioned several times that of course individuals of any faith may be charitable. We're generally not privy to that. But my main point is that charity comes with strings in most cases within proselytising religions. Baha'i schools, for example, disguise it as 'ethics education', which I see as just plain deceptive.

Ethics for Baha’is means virtues such as compassion, charity, tolerance and respect for others that are taught in all faiths. We make no apologies for including moral and spiritual dimensions that are lacking in secular communities as well as promoting excellence in the arts and sciences.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The Bahai Faith seems to have developed in a far more accidental and arguably more troubled way, with a whole intermediary faith (Babism) as a stepping stone of sorts. And its cultural origin comes from Persia / Iran, where there was a much more marked dominance of Islaam and it was of the Shia orientation instead of Sunni.

Both the Bab and Baha'u'llah were of the Shia line. Why it happened this way traces back to the verbal Covernant of Muhammad and who should have been the appointed successor of Muhammad.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

Ethics for Baha’is means virtues such as compassion, charity, tolerance and respect for others that are taught in all faiths.

You mean things like saying the Christians got it all wrong? The same as on these forums? In India one of the school's hidden agenda was exposed, but perhaps it just hasn't happened yet there.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

According to this Charity Data the entire gamut of charity work is to do with promotion of the Baha'i faith. Maybe it's an anomaly.

I have nothing against donating to religious institutions, when they uplift people as much as they do, but there's a difference, in my mind, between direct charity for anyone (like the Red Cross, Food banks, etc.) versus religious donations. I'm sure sometimes those lines do get blurred. The Salvation Army would be one such example. Religious groups also tend to be administrative top heavy in this regard.

Somethimg fishy with that link. It would be a concern if it was legitimate.

Regards Tony

 

[LuisDantas]

Both the Bab and Baha'u'llah were of the Shia line. Why it happened this way traces back to the verbal Covernant of Muhammad and who should have been the appointed successor of Muhammad.

Regards Tony

Or perhaps it was simply that Persia / Iran had a sizeable Shia contingent and not nearly as many Sunnis, thereby making Shia Islaam the main cultural influence in the nascent Bab and Bahai Faiths. It certainly looks that way to me.

I may not have been sufficiently clear in that post that you quoted. What I wanted to emphasize is that India was not under Islaamic hegemony and that the (many) Muslims there were mainly Sunnis, with not very many Shias by comparison.

 

[Vinayaka]

Somethimg fishy with that link. It would be a concern if it was legitimate.

Regards Tony

I agree. It's the NSA of Canada.

 

[oldbadger]

I am no opponent of religion.

I do value it. It is theism that I want to see carefully monitored and sufficiently defended against.

Ah, yes.
Indeed, I have should have said that theistic religions are taking a battering, and of course you do follow a religion.

Fair enough.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Or perhaps it was simply that Persia / Iran had a sizeable Shia contingent and not nearly as many Sunnis, thereby making Shia Islaam the main cultural influence in the nascent Bab and Bahai Faiths. It certainly looks that way to me.

I may not have been sufficiently clear in that post that you quoted. What I wanted to emphasize is that India was not under Islaamic hegemony and that the (many) Muslims there were mainly Sunnis, with not very many Shias by comparison.

I have my own ideas as to why many Religious movements arise around the same time. To me the Key was the Revelation given by the Bab. This 'Gate' opens a new Revelation and the world is flooded with renewed spiritual energy.

Many receptive souls pickup on this energy and it would be hard to know where this inspiration came from, if one did not know the Gate was opened.

We must also consider there were many new Faiths, or renewed efforts in current Faiths happening all around the world at this time.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I agree. It's the NSA of Canada.

That was no appropriate and you should retract that comment.

All the activities mentioned on that link are Baha'i only projects, thus only Baha'i's can donate to them.

How is this on a charity site with a donate now button? Is that a legitimate site?

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

That was no appropriate and you should retract that comment.

All the activities mentioned on that link are Baha'i only projects, thus only Baha'i's can donate to them.

How is this on a charity site with a donate now button? Is that a legitimate site?

Regards Tony

I'll go take another look, Tony. Edited ... you're right, it wasn't the NSA site itself, but the Canadian government site that gives information on charities. My bad. Here's the NSA site. National Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of Canada | Bahá’í Community of Canada

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You're suggesting I support Baha'i proselytising missions? You must realise I'm against proselytising by now.

What is happening to the indigenous religions of the Solomon Islands, or have they already been wiped out by the Christians before you?

Editted ... I found the answer, Tony ... sadly ... Religion in Solomon Islands - Wikipedia

I wonder how much culture and knowledge like herbology was lost.

It is hard to talk to you and appeal to all that is good when they are the replies you offer in return.

I am happy to talk about that Charity and how it started and what the goals are. But not on this OP.

Regards Tony