Two Kinds of Salvation

[Ben Avraham]

Are you always this delusional, or do you have to take a pill to get that way? I'm not your enemy but I do find you irrational and unreasonable. I can't help you overcome either, so have fun.

So, can we defend ourselves when they attack or it will be bigotry if we try to change from being in the position of sitting duck? You guys never cease amazing me!

 

[Scuba Pete]

So, can we defend ourselves when they attack

Dude, if you're looking to me to justify or condemn any particular action, you should always follow the first rule of Scuba: Don't Hold Your Breath. I'm not a witness to those events. so how would I know one way or the other. No, I don't think you're entirely blameless when it comes to Palestinaphobia, but there's nothing, absolutely nothing I can do or say that won't be misconstrued by you. Nothing, nada and squat. You're itching for a fight and I'm not going to be your Huckleberry.

Just because you hate a particular group, doesn't mean I have to. Not hating them doesn't make me your enemy. Unless you just want to be unreasonable. Which it appears to be what you want to do.

 

[Ben Avraham]

Dude, if you're looking to me to justify or condemn any particular action, you should always follow the first rule of Scuba: Don't Hold Your Breath. I'm not a witness to those events. so how would I know one way or the other. No, I don't think you're entirely blameless when it comes to Palestinaphobia, but there's nothing, absolutely nothing I can do or say that won't be misconstrued by you. Nothing, nada and squat. You're itching for a fight and I'm not going to be your Huckleberry.

Just because you hate a particular group, doesn't mean I have to. Not hating them doesn't make me your enemy. Unless you just want to be unreasonable. Which it appears to be what you want to do.

You missed to catch the critical point of my last for being too serious.

 

[Scuba Pete]

You missed to catch the critical point of my last for being too serious.

I don't understand this statement. I understand all the words within the statement, but couched together in this fashion they don't convey a coherent meaning. Please rephrase.

 

[Ben Avraham]

I don't understand this statement. I understand all the words within the statement, but couched together in this fashion they don't convey a coherent meaning. Please rephrase.

I don't understand this statement. I understand all the words within the statement, but couched together in this fashion they don't convey a coherent meaning. Please rephrase.

Don't worry! There is nothing salvific in a joke. I just took a break from the irrelevant.

 

[Scuba Pete]

OK, well I don't much see the humor in it either. Good luck.

 

[omega2xx]

Two Kinds of Salvation.

1. Personal salvation and;

2. Universal salvation.

Only universal salvation is free; personal salvation is as expensive as the kind of transgression committed against the Law.

Universal salvation is the one promised to Noah through the Noahide Covenant which the Lord established with all Mankind. Soon after the Flood, the Lord promised Noah never to allow another catastrophe the size of the Flood as all living beings, except for Noah's family, had suffered universal destruction. What about if Mankind turned again as evil as at the time of Noah? The Lord had to raise a new people from the loins of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as the pledge or assurance to His promise of universal salvation for Mankind. Israel had risen. Now, as long as Israel remained as a People before the Lord forever, the earth would remain seed-time and harvest and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night would not cease. In other words, as long as the natural laws functioned properly, Mankind was saved; freely saved. (Gen. 8:21,22)

Prophet Jeremiah must have read the above text and connected the Lord's pledge with the permanence of Israel as a People before the Lord forever as long as the natural laws functioned properly, thus, Israel would guarantee the Lord's promise of universal salvation of Mankind. (Jeremiah 31:35-37)

Reading the Christian NT the other day, I came about John 4:22 and I was reminded that Jesus must have read both texts above; the one of Genesis and that of Jeremiah and concluded that indeed salvation comes from the Jews. From the Jews, he said, and not from one among the Jews.

Now, for personal salvation, the bill would have to be paid according to the transgression of the Law; the law of cause and effect; some times as expensive as the loss of life itself. This kind of salvation is so serious that, as Jesus himself said, if we come to the Temple to plead for salvation and we are reminded that some one has an issue with us, we must leave all behind and go set things right with our neighbor and only then return to the altar to plead for salvation. (Mat. 5:23,24)

If universal means all who are born will be saved, that is nowhere taught in the Bible, especially by Noah. Noah and his family were saved the same way Abraham was---they believe God and obeyed what He told them to do.

Personal salvaltion is free---By grace you have been saved and that not of your self, it is the GIFT of God. Eph 2:8-9

 

[Ben Avraham]

Jesus is not dead and his Spirit lives inside of me.

Congratulations for your strong faith. I even pray that God bless you for your faith.

 

[Ben Avraham]

If universal means all who are born will be saved, that is nowhere taught in the Bible, especially by Noah. Noah and his family were saved the same way Abraham was---they believe God and obeyed what He told them to do.

Personal salvaltion is free---By grace you have been saved and that not of your self, it is the GIFT of God. Eph 2:8-9

Well my friend, that's not what Jesus himself said in Luke 16:29-31. He said that to achieve salvation, we must listen to "Moses" aka the Law. That's the payment to remain personally saved. Isaiah too said that to set things right with HaShem so that our sins, from scarlet red become as white as snow, we must repent and return to the obedience of God'sLaw. (Isaiah 1:18,19)

 

[Ben Avraham]

Christians believe in a resurrected Christ Jesus. It is written that he ascended to Heaven, but even before that he was given all authority on Earth and in Heaven. Some Christians don't believe he was given the authority to speak, but I do. It is not like hearing words like here on Earth.
It is written that we should ask for more wisdom. Some people search the scriptures for it. They search the scriptures for meaning. I ask for it.

I asked for an answer to this: Why can't many people hear?

The answer: Trust in יְ֭הוָה with all the heart and on understanding do not lean. Proverbs 3:5 Psalms 37:5

I think that leaning on anything to believe in it shuts down a person's ability to hear.

Another answer I got. The Word will not speak around an idol. To believe in something that isn't true to lean on it creates an idol between you and The Word. To hear you MUST get rid of all your idols.

The beginning of wisdom is fear of the Lord, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding. So, never discard understanding! (Proverbs 9:10)

 

[Ben Avraham]

Yah, I disagree with this. Jesus is the Word. Scriptures are just a journal of man looking for God and his identity.

Whenever I seeing dueling scriptures I expect to see a lot of legalism and very little love. You didn't disappoint me.

I am sorry! I never thought the Truth was for you so hard to listen.

 

[savagewind]

The beginning of wisdom is fear of the Lord, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding. So, never discard understanding! (Proverbs 9:10)

I am not against understanding. Scripture just says that understanding should not be trusted in.

To illustrate, imagine Men in Black. At the shooting range, there was a little girl. Most people would trust their understanding NOT to shoot her. That might prove to be wrong. Understanding can be wrong.

 

[savagewind]

I think that the History of the Human Race has proved that understanding is usually wrong.

 

[omega2xx]

Well my friend, that's not what Jesus himself said in Luke 16:29-31. He said that to achieve salvation, we must listen to "Moses" aka the Law. That's the payment to remain personally saved. Isaiah too said that to set things right with HaShem so that our sins, from scarlet red become as white as snow, we must repent and return to the obedience of God'sLaw. (Isaiah 1:18,19)

First let me remind you that God does not have 2 plans by which man can become righteous. His only plan is given to us by how God's righteousness was imputed to Abram--He belieived God. That was his only requirement. Luke 16:29-31 is not about salvation. It is about obedience. Moses taught how to have your sins forgiven. If you obey his instructions about presenting an acceptable sacrifice, your sins were forgiven.

Isa 1:18-19 is about salvation, but IMO, you have missed the central theme. What are we to reason with God about? Obviously our sins. What is going to make them white as snow? First consent(agree) they ar sins. Second obey what God has said will make them white---present a substitute to die in your place.

 

[Ben Avraham]

Jesus is not dead and his Spirit lives inside of me.

And how can you prove that? By faith. I knew it. That's the same with all Christians. The problem is that they do not admit it

 

[Ben Avraham]

First let me remind you that God does not have 2 plans by which man can become righteous. His only plan is given to us by how God's righteousness was imputed to Abram--He belieived God. That was his only requirement. Luke 16:29-31 is not about salvation. It is about obedience. Moses taught how to have your sins forgiven. If you obey his instructions about presenting an acceptable sacrifice, your sins were forgiven.

Isa 1:18-19 is about salvation, but IMO, you have missed the central theme. What are we to reason with God about? Obviously our sins. What is going to make them white as snow? First consent(agree) they ar sins. Second obey what God has said will make them white---present a substitute to die in your place.

I was not the one who said, We must listen to "Moses" aka the Law. It was Jesus. You have to take on him not me. Unless you get rid of the gospel of Luke.

 

[Jedster]

And how can you prove that? By faith. I knew it. That's the same with all Christians. The problem is that they do not admit it

Not according to my experience. I know many devout Christians who openly and proudly admit to faith as do many people in most religions.
It's only a minority that comes on the internet to prove everyone else wrong.

 

[Ben Avraham]

Christians believe in a resurrected Christ Jesus. It is written that he ascended to Heaven, but even before that he was given all authority on Earth and in Heaven. Some Christians don't believe he was given the authority to speak, but I do. It is not like hearing words like here on Earth.
It is written that we should ask for more wisdom. Some people search the scriptures for it. They search the scriptures for meaning. I ask for it.

According to II Timothy 2:8, Paul was the one who made up the idea that Jesus resurrected. Now, to do what he did with a Jew was no different from Replacement Theology. And, who said that Jesus was given all authority on earth and in heaven, the Hellenist who wrote that gospel? That's vandalism of a religion by another. The Scriptures does have a lot of wisdom to teach any one who read it.

I asked for an answer to this: Why can't many people hear? The answer: Trust in יְ֭הוָה with all the heart and on understanding do not lean. Proverbs 3:5 Psalms 37:5.

If one is not to lean on understanding, what's the option, to lean on ignorance? Absolutely not!

I think that leaning on anything to believe in it shuts down a person's ability to hear.

Where is the origin of the ability to understand if not in the desire to know the Lord? God's praising coming from ignorance is even an insult to HaShem.

Another answer I got. The Word will not speak around an idol. To believe in something that isn't true is to lean on it creates an idol between you and The Word. To hear you MUST get rid of all your idols.

To make an idol of Jesus is akin to believing in something that is not true.

 

[Ben Avraham]

I think that the History of the Human Race has proved that understanding is usually wrong.

True only when the attempt to understand comes through Christian preconceived notions.

 

[Ben Avraham]

The idea of universal salvation, that everyone will be saved and enjoy eternal life, does not find support in sacred Scripture. Genesis 9:11 simply records; "Yes, I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all flesh be destroyed by the waters of a flood, and never again will a flood bring the earth to ruin." This is not a promise that no one will be destroyed, but simply that a global Deluge would not reoccur. Jesus Christ himself warned; "Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it; whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are finding it." (Matthew 7:13,14)

That's wrong! Universal salvation has nothing to do with eternal life. Eternal life only HaShem has it. (Genesis 3:22) The only thing eternal about man is Sheol in the grave. (Psalm 49:12,2) Now, the fact that a global deluge will never reoccur, yes, that pertains to universal salvation. And it was about this kind of salvation that Jesus attributed to the Jews when he said "Salvation comes from the Jews." (John 4:2).