Two sides of a coin?

[A Vestigial Mote]

I dont understand how that relates to religion. We grow in religion.

And my point is that you can lose it instantaneously in a car crash - regardless how much you've "grown". I was providing context of a change to your "religion" that occurs even more quickly than your example of someone converting from one week to the next. One takes a moment, another a week, another half their life. The point I am making is that it doesn't matter how long it takes, or how often switching occurs - it is the person's prerogative, it happens from their perspective, THAT'S what it looks like to THEM - it doesn't really matter what it looks like to you.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Have you seen this happen a lot? It's not something I've seen for ages.

In person, no. Most people I know have been with their faith as adults for years. Some indoctrinated others have a revelation in mid age. One guy believed in Catholicism, married a Buddhist, and now he's a buddhist. Nice guy. I met them when they took me up to the Shoshu temple. Interesting switc, though. He was saying some people pray to the Dharma as if it were god. Basically trying to get from one truth to another.

But facts are natural laws. They dont change. Most believers I know woulsnt change their belief for a sec. If they wanted to, just by knowing them, I dont even think its possible. Their belief defines them.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

And my point is that you can lose it instantaneously in a car crash - regardless how much you've "grown". I was providing context of a change to your "religion" that occurs even more quickly than your example of someone converting from one week to the next. One takes a moment, another a week, another half their life. The point I am making is that it doesn't matter how long it takes, or how often switching occurs - it is the person's prerogative, it happens from their perspective, THAT'S what it looks like to THEM - it doesn't really matter what it looks like to you.

Its an observation. Has nothing to do with me.

I dont see how religion is like a car crash. My ancestors exist no matter if I believe they do (or conscious to believe) or not. Their existence doesnt revolve around me.

When I was in the hospital for brain surgery, the hospital had a huge, I mean huge, marble statue of Jesus Christ. People came there to rub his feet since the rest of his body couldnt be reached. Patients came. People in all different walks of life. After my surgery, Im thankful my family was still there even without me aware of it. Likewise with people who know god exist, they know he does even if they are not even aware of it.

Car crashes, brain surgery, etc doesnt change that fact.

So, for one person to believe Christ save then today and then all of the sudden not saved tommorow? Thats like I was never baptised in the Church all because I dont believe i god.

 

[Thief]

Years ago I worked with a team leader and on occasion of break time made his belief known.
There is no god.
he then went on to say he was once a deacon of a small congregation.

I did not ask him about his change of mind and heart.
I got a sense an event left him standing alone....and no One came to comfort.

I spoke of my belief .....briefly...and then we went back to work.

He never said another word about God.

the fact is......letting go of your belief......
doesn't take God out of the picture.
your denial may seem a fact to you.....
but I cannot affirm a non-belief.

 

[Aupmanyav]

That would mean a person could be an atheist and a theist at the sams time since they are both within?

Could be. I am a strong atheist but very sympathetic to Hindu Gods (People have asked me is I am really an theist). In my case it is basically cultural.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I dont see how religion is like a car crash.

Based on the above portion of your reply, it has become obvious to me that I need not pursue this conversation any further. Good luck to you in getting over your "staggers".

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Could be. I am a strong atheist but very sympathetic to Hindu Gods (People have asked me is I am really an theist). In my case it is basically cultural.

I think a lot of British Christians are the same.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Years ago I worked with a team leader and on occasion of break time made his belief known.
There is no god.
he then went on to say he was once a deacon of a small congregation.

I did not ask him about his change of mind and heart.
I got a sense an event left him standing alone....and no One came to comfort.

I spoke of my belief .....briefly...and then we went back to work.

He never said another word about God.

the fact is......letting go of your belief......
doesn't take God out of the picture.
your denial may seem a fact to you.....
but I cannot affirm a non-belief.

I can see how that wouls change his belief. What puzzles me is doing so many times in many faiths in so short of time period. I had a huge revelation of christianity when I went to Latin Mass. I never associated how I view god with the Church's view again. I changed my interpretation, but if I felt it was necessary ro pray "to" life, Id never stoped believing in god. But i dont see god as an entity to be prayed to...anyway, life exists even after Im gone. So I cant change my belief in life/god.

Thats me. Id think other religions itself are the same way.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Based on the above portion of your reply, it has become obvious to me that I need not pursue this conversation any further. Good luck to you in getting over your "staggers".

Thanks a lot. Let me take that back. I answered that in post 43. I understand you and I disagree. Sheesh.

 

[Aupmanyav]

But my question is, within a day or week time period? One day someone is Hindu another day they are christian the next they are pagan?

It does not take even week or a day. It happens at one moment. My hesitation was as to how could I leave the Gods/Goddesses that I was worshiping for years? But then, at one point of time I decided that enough is enough, I have hesitated for a long time, now let me take the leap.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It does not take even week or a day. It happens at one moment. My hesitation was as to how could I leave the Gods/Goddesses that I was worshiping for years? But then, at one point of time I decided that enough is enough, I have hesitated for a long time, now let me take the leap.

Kind of a realization? If change of beliefs are mostly realizations and revelations, I can see that. Without those two, do you think its possible?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Then, there is IS. Accept Islam or we put you to sword. Rather than revealations, I would say persuations. Revealations come to prophets and messengers.

Normally it is like a dam filling with water. Then at some point of time, the dam breaks.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Even priests have doubts...

 

[Janardena]

Can you really change your belief more than one time within a week time frame?

No. Because you have no control over whether or not you actually believe something. I put it to you that you merely profess change.

I'll use two extremes to not make it personal. I am an atheist. I turn around and do a wonder woman. Now I believe in god. Okay. Now god should be my life. I cant switch from the only reality to me. But I wake up the next morning and find Im an atheist again.

Who was I really? A theist? An atheist?

You cannot be an atheist or theist at the same time, that would be a contradiction.
As you stated that you arbitrarily believed in God, and then woke up the next morning to being an atheist, I contend that you simply suppress your belief in God. So I would contend that you are a theist, but act as an atheist for whatever reason.

Religion defines your life. It takes time to develop a new way of seeing life if you wish to "switch beliefs."

I beg to differ. Your life defines your religion, and you can only ''switch beliefs'' as and when you can no longer suppress the truth.

For example, my belief in X and disbelief in anything contrary to X is at a flip of a coin. Changing beliefs in my mind doesnt mean it has changes in my life on the bat. I understand some combine beliefs but to change from one to another within a week?

How is that possible?

Can you offer an example of someone who has actually changed their beliefs?
Can you show that they actually changed their beliefs, as opposed to accepting the truth of a situation, giving up a false notion?
For example Anthony Flew, the famous atheist, who converted to theism. Can you show that he changed his belief, as opposed to giving up the illusion of atheism?

 

[viole]

Can you really change your belief more than one time within a week time frame?

I'll use two extremes to not make it personal. I am an atheist. I turn around and do a wonder woman. Now I believe in god. Okay. Now god should be my life. I cant switch from the only reality to me. But I wake up the next morning and find Im an atheist again.

Who was I really? A theist? An atheist?

Religion defines your life. It takes time to develop a new way of seeing life if you wish to "switch beliefs." For example, my belief in X and disbelief in anything contrary to X is at a flip of a coin. Changing beliefs in my mind doesnt mean it has changes in my life on the bat. I understand some combine beliefs but to change from one to another within a week?

How is that possible?

I think a die (singular of dice, I presume) is a more appropriate analogy than a coin. A die with thousands of sides.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Robert.Evans]

Can you really change your belief more than one time within a week time frame?

I'll use two extremes to not make it personal. I am an atheist. I turn around and do a wonder woman. Now I believe in god. Okay. Now god should be my life. I cant switch from the only reality to me. But I wake up the next morning and find Im an atheist again.

Who was I really? A theist? An atheist?

Religion defines your life. It takes time to develop a new way of seeing life if you wish to "switch beliefs." For example, my belief in X and disbelief in anything contrary to X is at a flip of a coin. Changing beliefs in my mind doesnt mean it has changes in my life on the bat. I understand some combine beliefs but to change from one to another within a week?

How is that possible?

I changed in less than three minutes. How is that possible?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You are kind of on my wave length of thinkin on this. Thr onl way I can see someone change their belief is if they are trying to recognize what they actually believe. Once they realize it, unless they are wrong with their conclusion, I dont see how thry can change it.

I beg to differ. Your life defines your religion, and you can only ''switch beliefs'' as and when you can no longer suppress the truth.

That last part is true. The first, I say religion Is your life. They cant be separated. If god, for example, is the first cause then that believer's life is defined by god. If, another example, we are defined by our true nature within us, whatever we do and believe/our life is defined by that nature.

Say a atheist religion is his family. Maybe his life is defined by the relationship with his family and not the other way around.

This is assuming that external first causes are needed to make the internal/life of one person better.

Can you show that they actually changed their beliefs, as opposed to accepting the truth of a situation, giving up a false notion?

Thats a better definition of changing belief. Accepting the truth of a situation. But so many times in a short time frame makes me wonder what those peoples truths are and what they are not.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I think a die (singular of dice, I presume) is a more appropriate analogy than a coin. A die with thousands of sides.

Ciao

- viole

And eight sided die? It lands only one face up. I havent seen a die that has two faces up at the same time.

As for the numbers on it, I feel when we are born our die is tossed. We gradually figure out the dots/beliefs on our die and hope its what we actually believe is true. Yes, we can have multiple beliefs/dots. But to have multiple realities/sides, I never seen that before.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I changed in less than three minutes. How is that possible?

So what actually happened?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I changed in less than three minutes. How is that possible?

Yes. How?

I believe Im a dog now. My mind can say so. My practice can say so. That doesnt matter. Cant cant change fact. Thats what religions/beliefs are to people who adopt or indoctrinated in it...it is a fact.

Thats why it takes time to change. Doesnt chanve the truth but at least it wont be odd that a five minute change from my being a dog to a cat is all of the sudden true just because i think it ans can bark or meow.