U.S. Punishes Russia for Election Hacking, Ejecting Operatives

[Revoltingest]

So what? Trump played the game according to the rules. It's like a team losing a baseball game then claiming they should have won because they had more hits. Wrong! You play by the rules of the game. If the rules were win by popular vote then we have no idea who would have won because the campaigns would have acted differently. For example, Trump spent zero time in California during the general. Do you think he would have done that if it was based on popular vote? Unlikely. So, we don't really know who would have won if the rules called for winner by popular vote.

This is something I've not been able to get Hillary voters to understand,
ie, that he played the game to win by very specific rules. Had the rules
been different, he'd have campaigned differently. Hillary was just bad
at campaigning....in addition to being disliked by her own voters.
Trump was so beatable.....even Bernie could've done it.

 

[Watchmen]

It is not entirely meaningless. But it isn't really important in this election either.
Do you agree that what jeager106 said was demonstrably wrong?
Tom

I don't really know what he meant.

 

[suncowiam]

Wrong. The Russian attacks merely revealed the truth about Hillary. Trump got the electoral votes necessary, and the popular vote is meaningless because they aren't part of the rules of the game. You gonna go on trumpeting the meaningless popular vote?

This assumes the GOP had no revealing secrets of their own. Please... I find that hard to believe. I wouldn't mind reading any personal trump emails concerning his taxes, his businesses and his sexual conducts.

What the DNC did was wrong but it definitely wasn't a fair playing field if the hacks and revelations weren't done to all sides. Russia is wrong for influencing the election. This is a simple point. It does not matter what was revealed because they specifically chose who to hack and what to reveal.

 

[psychoslice]

Ha, yea blame the Russians, how stupid, all they are is bad bad loses.

 

[Watchmen]

This assumes the GOP had no revealing secrets of their own. Please... I find that hard to believe. I wouldn't mind reading any personal trump emails concerning his taxes, his businesses and his sexual conducts.

What the DNC did was wrong but it definitely wasn't a fair playing field if the hacks and revelations weren't done to all sides. Russia is wrong for influencing the election. This is a simple point. It does not matter what was revealed because they specifically chose who to hack and what to reveal.

Maybe. Maybe not. Also, I don't believe Russia won the election for Trump. His message did. The Dems are out of touch with working America.

 

[suncowiam]

Maybe. Maybe not. Also, I don't believe Russia won the election for Trump. His message did. The Dems are out of touch with working America.

I don't know either how trump won but we can't assume that it was simply the will of people knowing that Russia was involved. That's the issue with this election. It should go down in history as trump winning the election but there's no denying a big fat asterisk next to his election. And it is due to Russia and WikiLeaks.

Another way to say this. It's not the whole truth if only half the truth was revealed. If you want to assume trump won by merit then I will only agree to it if the same thing happened to him and the GOP. This being most or all of his personal emails were leaked. That by my definition is a fair playing level.

 

[Watchmen]

I don't know either how trump won but we can't assume that it was simply the will of people knowing that Russia was involved. That's the issue with this election. It should go down in history as trump winning the election but there's no denying a big fat asterisk next to his election. And it is due to Russia and WikiLeaks.

Another way to say this. It's not the whole truth if only half the truth was revealed. If you want to assume trump won by merit then I will only agree to it if the same thing happened to him and the GOP. This being most or all of his personal emails were leaked. That by my definition is a fair playing level.

He won by merit. He was the far better candidate and campaigner. Again, out of touch!

 

[suncowiam]

He won by merit. He was the far better candidate and campaigner. Again, out of touch!

That is purely subjective and using a ! doesnt help you prove it.

The best you or I can say is that we don't know how be won but that be won.

I think we're done with this talk... Wouldn't you agree?

 

[Watchmen]

That is purely subjective and using a ! doesnt help you prove it.

The best you or I can say is that we don't know how be won but that be won.

Wrong!

Lol

 

[psychoslice]

As soon as Obama is out the better, Trump will make peace with Russia, someone as to grow up.

 

[buddhist]

Liberal Rolling Stones mag is even questioning the official story: "Something About This Russia Story Stinks ... Nearly a decade and a half after the Iraq-WMD faceplant, the American press is again asked to co-sign a dubious intelligence assessment ... The problem with this story is that, like the Iraq-WMD mess, it takes place in the middle of a highly politicized environment during which the motives of all the relevant actors are suspect. Nothing quite adds up ... But we've been burned before in stories like this, to disastrous effect. Which makes it surprising we're not trying harder to avoid getting fooled again."

 

[metis]

I'm questioning what you see as the threat. Why is the revealing of the truth a threat to America's election process? Indeed if the revealing of truth is a threat to the American election process, then is the process really worth defending?

The issue I addressed did not deal with "the truth" as far as the campaigning is concerned but dealt with the potential dangers of our process being hacked before and during an election. Do you not believe that could be a problem?

 

[Revoltingest]

The issue I addressed did not deal with "the truth" as far as the campaigning is concerned but dealt with the potential dangers of our process being hacked before and during an election. Do you not believe that could be a problem?

The danger should be dealt with in either of 2 ways.....
1) Don't do bad things which need to be kept secret.
2) Employ security measures to keep these bad things secret.

I recommend #1.
Don't let a big stinking #2 ruin an election.

 

[esmith]

The issue I addressed did not deal with "the truth" as far as the campaigning is concerned but dealt with the potential dangers of our process being hacked before and during an election. Do you not believe that could be a problem?

Our election process was not hacked, the emails from the DNC and John Podesta were hacked.
I really don't give a damn about that because it appears that the proper "personal security" measures were not followed by those parties. What bothers me and everyone seems to forget because they are still whining over the election is the cyber assault being perpetrated by foreign actors on more critical areas.
In other words the DNC and Podesta got caught screwing around with the election by hackers and it was probably around 99% their fault. Yes it was illegal but we got to see how the "sausage" is made in the Dem's party.
Move on

 

[suncowiam]

The danger should be dealt with in either of 2 ways.....
1) Don't do bad things which need to be kept secret.
2) Employ security measures to keep these bad things secret.

I recommend #1.
Don't let a big stinking #2 ruin an election.

Yeah, Clinton has to take responsibility for her lost, first and foremost. She cannot blame others for her email breach.

With that said, we will never know with certainty if Trump won due to the merit of his own campaign. Having another nation influencing our elections through security breaches should not be condoned and we have to fix this.

There are no provisions in dealing with this now. I believe we should have provisions in place to pause or redo an election if such things happen in the future. What ever happened with trump, it's done, he's the president. But for future elections, we should have a better system to deal with foreign interference and ensure our elections are held with the highest of integrity and value.

I won't argue that Clinton and the DNC had terrible behind the public revelations. But if Trump/GOP supporters want to continue this then they should push their own candidate and party to publish all their own personal emails. Prove to the public that it was only Clinton and the DNC that were "misbehaving". Otherwise, it's a false moral high ground to stand on.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yeah, Clinton has to take responsibility for her lost, first and foremost. She cannot blame others for her email breach.

With that said, we will never know with certainty if Trump won due to the merit of his own campaign. Having another nation influencing our elections through security breaches should not be condoned and we have to fix this.

There are no provisions in dealing with this now. I believe we should have provisions in place to pause or redo an election if such things happen in the future. What ever happened with trump, it's done, he's the president. But for future elections, we should have a better system to deal with foreign interference and ensure our elections are held with the highest of integrity and value.

I won't argue that Clinton and the DNC had terrible behind the public revelations. But if Trump/GOP supporters want to continue this then they should push their own candidate and party to publish all their own personal emails. Prove to the public that it was only Clinton and the DNC that were "misbehaving". Otherwise, it's a false moral high ground to stand on.

To blame her loss on the released information, which in turn they blame on Evil Ivan,
is for her to miss the larger reality. Had the info remained secret, leading to her win,
Trump's loss could've been blamed on the media releasing damaging info about him.
Is the issue only about who released the info?
Or is it that releasing info is wrongful trickery?
Instead, I say our problem is that boorish, corrupt, & incompetent candidates create
their illusions of worthiness. Tis good that bubble be burst...no matter who does it.

 

[suncowiam]

To blame her loss on the released information, which in turn they blame on Evil Ivan,
is for her to miss the larger reality. Had the info remained secret, leading to her win,
Trump's loss could've been blamed on the media releasing damaging info about him.
Is the issue only about who released the info?
Or is it that releasing info is wrongful trickery?
Instead, I say our problem is that boorish, corrupt, & incompetent candidates create
their illusions of worthiness. Tis good that bubble be burst...no matter who does it.

Some of your points I agree with. Politics is dirty with the use of media. However, we cannot compare Russia, a powerful nation, to the media. Nor should we ignore any acts of crime that could also be considered an act of war. We still live in a civilized nation with laws. Even though I voted for Hillary I still debated against many of the slurs against trump through media because no proper evidence were brought forward.

Just like a trial, we cannot just use any evidence we please unless it was lawfully obtained. I would argue for the similar process in something as important the election of the POTUS.

 

[Revoltingest]

Some of your points I agree with. Politics is dirty with the use of media. However, we cannot compare Russia, a powerful nation, to the media.

I agree.
Our media are far more heinous in their acts of disinformation.
Of course, the comparison is a bit askew, since what the Russians
are accused of has no "dis" preceding its "information".

Nor should we ignore any acts of crime that could also be considered an act of war.

Is it an act of war when we release information in foreign countries?

Perhaps the people (including my now dead father-in-law) behind Voice Of
America are perhaps guilty of the war crime, "disseminating objective info
into a country whose government prefers that the populace not know it".

We still live in a civilized nation with laws.

Which don't apply to the poltically powerful.

Just like a trial, we cannot just use any evidence we please unless it was lawfully obtained. I would argue for the similar process in something as important the election of the POTUS.

So if we discover some correct info which casts a bad light on
a candidate, we should be prevented from considering it?
Nah!
If this be a thought crime, I'm glad to be guilty of it.

 

[suncowiam]

I agree.
Our media are far more heinous in their acts of disinformation.
Of course, the comparison is a bit askew, since what the Russians
are accused of has no "dis" preceding its "information".

Is it an act of war when we release information in foreign countries?

Perhaps the people (including my now dead father-in-law) behind Voice Of
America are perhaps guilty of the war crime, "disseminating objective info
into a country whose government prefers that the populace not know it".

Which don't apply to the poltically powerful.

So if we discover some correct info which casts a bad light on
a candidate, we should be prevented from considering it?
Nah!
If this be a thought crime, I'm glad to be guilty of it.

The act of war that I was referring to is breaching one of our official's system. Yes, she was was wrong for not securing her system better. But that doesn't excuse Russia for breaching it. I have no problems with anyone, internal or external, releasing any information. We all have our dirty secrets, even high level organizations... But as a civilized nation we have legal ways of accessing this information so as to ensure our liberties are not infringed on. That is the distinction I'm trying to focus on.

 

[metis]

Actually it wasn't Hillary's personal server that was breached.