Umm, a Discussion About Hell

[YmirGF]

Do you see what I mean? Believe whatever you want my friend because it is not my problem; it is truly yours.

This is what I love about Islam. No, honest. You folks are always thinking the happy thoughts of consigning billions of people to eternal torture whilst you trot about in paradise. It really is terribly egotistical.

 

[Ghostaka]

This is what I love about Islam. No, honest. You folks are always thinking the happy thoughts of consigning billions of people to eternal torture whilst you trot about in paradise. It really is terribly egotistical.

Do you think that by backbiting Muslims you are justified in you racist views?

Wow. No peace for you my friend.

But why not? Peace be upon you < so that you may be guided aright one day... you know, once you swallow your pride and arrogance..?

 

[Azakel]

Do you think that by backbiting Muslims you are justified in you racist views?

Wow. No peace for you my friend.

But why not? Peace be upon you < so that you may be guided aright one day... you know, once you swallow your pride and arrogance..?

How is "backbiting" a Muslim "Racist"? Muslim isn't a Race, it what one you follows Islam is called, but then you know that(or should) because you are Muslim right? But it is in no way Racist.

 

[Francis]

I am not sure what tense you are using, past, present or future. You say they made their choice (past), are refusing to go back on it (present) and they won’t choose (future). I am sorry, I don’t want to be mean but you are just not making sense. You say they can choose (meaning it is possible) but you also say that they won’t . If it is possible how can you say with such certainty that it won’t happen? And if you know for sure that it won’t happen how can you say that it can happen?

yes, that is what I'm saying. Sorry if it wasn't clearly put. I don't exactly know how to put this, but my thoughts on it are that they reject God continually, and damn themselves to Hell. They cannot get out of Hell because they continually reject God, and that's the only place for them,. And so, they are caught between their two greatest desires: To be with God, and to be away from Him. At least, that's how i think it works. Oh, and in the Bible, there is a parable about a rich man who dies and goes to hell. He asks Abraham to save him, but Abraham says there is a great divide that he cannot cross. So that's pretty much my scriptural backup for saying that it won't happen. I think the divide is in his heart, or whatever. Peace!

 

[Francis]

Simply because my friend, you do not realize that I am Muslim; conversing with you and you still chose not to believe. Are you saying that everything that I am saying is a lie? Why are you asking me these questions? Will you consider becoming a Muslim even if you did like something I said about Islam? I will tell you your answer... No.

I truly laughed out loud when i read this. So therefore, if i was a non-believer, looking for God, i should just automatically believe you instead of the Mormons or Jehova's Witnesses that come to my door every so often? Or the Lutherans who help all of the charities? As opposed to the Muslims, who have a reputation made for them by Al Kaida? I'm not in the least saying that all Muslims are like that, most of them are wonderful, peaceful people. But do you see my point? Why should i believe you over anyone else? Prove it. Or have Allah prove it. Peace!

 

[logician]

on an interesting side note, in the Revelation of Peter, an apocalyptic text left out of the Bible. Peter relates that Jesus showed him Heaven and Hell and told him that there is a secret and that is that Hell is not forever. If just one person in Heaven asks God to free the people in Hell, he will do so and all will enter the kingdom. This would eventually indeed happen.....according to the text anyway.

You can see why it was left out.

Certainly, this makes not sense whatsoever, although torturing people's supposed souls forever does?

 

[Francis]

You still believe that (hypothetically, of course) hell is a place where people are tortured forever? I thought pretty much everyone had agreed that isn't exactly it. Peace!

 

[Wandered Off]

Then what you said about them “continually choosing” is not true. You cannot say they are continually choosing if they do not have a choice

Very true. I don't understand how it's so important for us to have free will here when we lack the certainty to make a confident choice, but then in an afterlife that is said to dwarf this one in length it's no longer important. It doesn't seem right to hold us eternally and irrevocably to a choice we were forced to make in abject uncertainty. We don't even know for certain a legitimate choice is being offered.

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...ates/52078-heaven-hell-gated-communities.html

 

[Ghostaka]

How is "backbiting" a Muslim "Racist"? Muslim isn't a Race, it what one you follows Islam is called, but then you know that(or should) because you are Muslim right? But it is in no way Racist.

Lol, I didn't say backbiting a Muslims was racist, I was talking about the unsubstantiated things he said about Islam. But you're right, maybe I should have used discriminatory?

 

[Azakel]

Lol, I didn't say backbiting a Muslims was racist, I was talking about the unsubstantiated things he said about Islam. But you're right, maybe I should have used discriminatory?

That would be better. Even saying something unsubstantiated about Islam wouldn't be racist. Because Islam isn't a race.

Anyway to get back and track. Someone early on(I believe it was Riverwolf) mention how Hell(at lest how it is seen by most today), didn't start off that way and it is most likely the Early Christian Church used the Greek concept of Tartarus.

 

[YmirGF]

Lol, I didn't say backbiting a Muslims was racist, I was talking about the unsubstantiated things he said about Islam. But you're right, maybe I should have used discriminatory?

I have reread my comments and yours a few times and just don't get the connection. Are you capable of explaining your outburst in rational terms?

 

[logician]

Well, a lot of people here seem to think that Hell is a place of eternal and infinite torment. well, it is. but, people seem to stop the understanding here, and go on calling God names and what-not. Well, not very many people seem to actually understand the entire concept (at least, not as i have been taught). As far as i know, hell is a place of eternal pain and suffering because it is where God is not. Basically, it's existence completely without God. And, he doesn't just throw you into the pit. I'm under the impression that you "imprint" on your mortal sin (whatever that might mean) and reject Him for eternity. Well, at least, that's what I've been taught. Am i wrong? Peace!

I would say there is not really any biblical support for your concept of hell, or for that matter, any concept of hell.

 

[Mister Emu]

I would say there is not really any biblical support for your concept of hell, or for that matter, any concept of hell.

Really?

whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

[QUOT=Mat 13:42]And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. [/QUOTE]

Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast [them] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire

 

[logician]

Really?


[QUOT=Mat 13:42]And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

[/quote]

Sorry, I should have said "little", do you really believe this stuff?

 

[Mister Emu]

I tend to believe that heaven and hell are both the presence of God experienced in different ways... as bliss and torment...

 

[knockknock]

I do not believe a loving God would create a place of eternal torment and I believe the Catholic church are responsible for this hideous concept, as someone referred to previously, its just an adoption of the Greek tartarus. Anyone who does a little research will soon discover that the Catholic church is merely the previous “Rome’ under the guise of Christianity and they have done more harm to God’s word than any other evil, not to mention the bloodshed they are responsible for.

True Christianity is a personal life changing thing, and I’m not referring to joining any particular sect as I think they all have flaws if you look hard enough. When a person earnestly begins to look for God off their own back they will begin to understand the true nature of God and the purpose of Jesus coming to earth. To understand just a tad about the nature of God, consider what he said in Jeremiah about Baal sacrificing their children to their god…

Jeremiah 32:35 KJV: And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.

Obviously this is not a blood thirsty God speaking, calling the sacrificing an ‘abomination’ and saying it had never come up into his mind to do such a thing! In the same vein, hell is a merciful ‘eternal nothing’, yes it is separation from god in eternal death – the never ending fire, fire destroys anything in its path.

BTW I personally believe that there are many peoples who may not have had the opportunity to find god or perhaps have been led the wrong way who will still be deemed ‘his children’ as God can see into the hearts and minds of men and only he knows who they really are.


My two cents

 

[RomCat]

There are no words adequate to describe the sufferings
of those who have damned themselves to Hell.
Their sufferings are eternal with no hope of ever being
diminished or ever ceasing.
The greatest suffering in Hell is the knowledge that one
has lost the vision of God forever. That one has rejected
God forever, our only source of eternal happiness.
It is terrifying to contemplate.
Please God may all of us save our souls and experience the
joy of Heaven forever; Where eye has not seen, nor ear has
heard, nor has it even entered the mind of man what God has
prepared for those who love Him!

 

[knockknock]

There are no words adequate to describe the sufferings
of those who have damned themselves to Hell.
Their sufferings are eternal with no hope of ever being
diminished or ever ceasing.

With respect, I think this is just a fear tactic on the part of most religions to control the masses and whilst I wholeheartedly agree that it is vital to grow a relationship with God and the christ Jesus, if I thought those same beings were devising an actual place of everlasting sorrow and misery then I would opt out of the whole thing because that is not the God I know deep in my heart - and could I languish in heaven knowing my neighbours were in a constant excrutiating pain and misery? Never!that would not be heaven for me!

Those that use God to manipulate their fellow man are far more likely to have damned their souls to eternal death.

 

[Azakel]

With respect, I think this is just a fear tactic on the part of most religions to control the masses .

I keep hearing this, but what religions other the Christianity and Islam(Christianity mostly) use Hell as a fear tactic?

 

[knockknock]

Perhaps I should have said that christian and islamic religions have used this as a fear tactic, but there is and always has been enough of them in the world to cause an awful lot of bloodshed wouldn't you say.