The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
Because I have seen what your nation is doing. Not read about it or heard about it. I suppose we could ask Gaza for an update but... oh.
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UN Experts Express Alarm over "Credible Allegations" of Sexual Assault and Rape Targeting Palestinian Women and Committed by the IDF
- Thread starter Debater Slayer
- Start date
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
I didn't criticize the tactic. I'm simply pointing out that the argument against that killing of "children" ignores that "children" are doing the fighting.
" ... bombs all the forced evacuations routes ... " Come on. They don't bomb all of them. All? That's simply not true and I think you know it. That said, the enemy fighters are embedded in the civilian population. When they launch rockets from the evacuation site, there are air strikes which target those rocket installations. As the war as progressed and the Palestinian soldiers are being killed and captured, the Palestinian fighters are pinned down in specific neighborhoods. There are no more attacks in and around the evacuation zones.
You don't believe anything to come out of that region since the beginning of the war?
Um. You DO realize you just flip-flopped?
"I don't believe anything coming from that region" <--- FLIP
"Your nation bombs all the forced evacuation routes" <--- FLOP
Ooops.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
What have you seen?
The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
Bluntly, nothing you can say will ever justify the indiscriminate bombing and killing of 30,000+ people in an open air concentration camp (yes, that is exactly what it is), at least 10,000 of which are children and infants. You are not going to be able to justify this slaughter with any "oh but this child shot a cop" or whatever else you think you have.
Yeah, I was in before that.
No, I didn't. See, you're cutting out the "since Israel cut off the internet" bit, kind of like when Israel cut off the internet to Gaza. Oops.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
The topic of the thread is the exploitation of women. The so-called "credible" / "serious" allegations are little more than throwing spaghetti at the wall, throwing red-meat to the lions, or preaching to the choir.
For those that are prejudiced, they need nothing more than that to receive the pleasurable confirmation of their prejudice.
IF the reason for ascribing credibility to the accusation is coming from the accusation about killing children, I suppose that makes sense, if and only if the accusation about killing 10,000 children is known to be true. If not, then the credibility of the accusation of exploitation is reduced.
The uncertainty is *actually* compounded if it is reliant on another unproven allegation. That's how social-media propaganda operates. Quantity is conflated with quality.
This is rather simple math. If there are 2 claims, both of which are assigned 80% confidence of being true. If one of the claims is reliant on the other, then the confidence drops to 64%. However, most do not consider this, and they think that the two claims support and reinforce each other. That's fallacious reasoning. If the claims are interdependent, the confidence decreases not increases.
Not 10,000. Please remember, the justification provided for assigning credibility to the accusation of exploitation is: "But, they killed 10,000 children." Now we're talking about infants. How many were intentionally killed by the IDF?
They're flying kites in Rafah.
Here's a recent picture of the markets operating in central Gaza: Feb. 28.
Here's one of the bakeries:
Israel is currently paying private shipping companies to distribute aid into northern Gaza because the UN dropped the ball. Its agents manufactured a humanitarian crisis, martyring the innocent Palestinians in order to win the PR battle happening on the Internet and in the media.
Israel is supplying aid, but, you have no clue about it. The UN's agents are restricting aid, spreading rumors, trying to win the war by CAUSING suffering and blaming their enemy.
"You're just a shill" is name-calling. I kindly ask you to refrain. I'll not report this one.
What you're observing is well-researched analysis which exposes the media you're consuming as unreliable rubbish. But, it's OK. Individuals who have power and influence have much higher standards.
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dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
LoL. Sloganeering is a weak argument. W-E-A-K.
First, it's not indiscriminate. It's precisely targeted. Second, whenever possible israel cancels air strikes if innocent children are in the line of fire. See below.
Third, it's not an open-air concentration camp. Clearly you have not actually SEEN Gaza. If it's an open air concentration camp someone, pah-lease tell Plestia Alaqad, Palestinian journalist with 4 million followers to get on message. It's supposed to be a concentration camp, Plestia. You can't post how wonderful it is:
Well... it looks pretty nice. What did you *actually* see? So far you've flip-flopped on the "I don't believe anything" assertion. Flip-flopped within... let's see less than an hour. You exaggerated about the imaginary bombing of ALL the evacuation routes. You're 100% wrong about the "open-air concentration camp". That's 3 errors in a row.
Why should I or anyone believe you? You say you were "IN". IN what? What did you see? What did you witness? Do you have pictures? How do you know israel is responsible? Are you taking into account that on average in 2023 there are 5 terrorist attacks EACH DAY? No country allows individuals to cross their borders without being searched. The Palestinians reside in a nation which as declared war on israel. Their country has acted on those statements consistently for over 70 years. Palestinians bring rifles and knives into israel and attack innocent people regularly. The Palestinians break their peace treaties.
The Palestinian "oppression" is a direct consequence of Palestinian actions and choices. It has nothing to do with my nation. If Palestinians stop smuggling weapons and stop shooting people, then there would be no oppression. If they would have agreed to live peacefully with their neighbors, there never would have been a "nakbah".
Nothing you've written so far is true. I've brought pictures. What have you brought other than slogans and emotive triggers?
Dude, the "bombing all the evacuation routes" is a Pro-Palestinian media hoax which was floated after the war started. After you supposedly stopped believing what was coming from the region.
You said you don't believe anything that's coming from the region since the war started, then about 40 minutes later you flip-flopped proclaiming that israel is bombing all the evacuation routes. That's news coming from the internet, after the war started.
Yup. Ooops. And double ooops trying to float the "open-air-prison hoax".
What else ya got?
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The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
Ah yes, I forgot that the intention as stated by your state officials is *checks notes* "eliminate everything - they will regret it," and calling for a second, greater nakba. My bad.
Bull.
Yes it is.
Still holding to that, huh? Well, par for the course, I guess.
Why should we believe you?
Ah yes, children playing in Raffah with a tent camp behind them. What's the camp for? Why's the camp necessary? Talk about pictures taken moments before disaster, the disaster being an air raid that was carried out on that camp. Gotta watch out for those deadly Hamas kites...
Anyone who has been paying attention, anyone who saw the ICJ trial in which your nation was found guilty of apartheid and genocide knows that you are being massively dishonest here. But please, continue to crank out pictures trying to show us that Gaza isn't a bombed-out wasteland of ruined homes and unburied bodies but is actually a land flowing with milk and honey and smiling children riding on rainbows and sunbeams.
Disgusting.
The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
South Africa's case as brought before the ICJ begins around 25:00
www.youtube.com
South Africa presents its case against Israel at the ICJ
The International Court of Justice (ICJ), the principal judicial organ of the United Nations, holds public hearings on the request for the indication of prov...
www.youtube.com
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
At this point, you'll need to bring quotes and links to be taken seriously.
I brought you the proof. Your willful ignorance is not my problem.
Nope. Palestinian journalist, Plestia Alaqaq posts that it isn't. It was a wonderful place. Facts don't fit your slogan? Typical.
It's true. You said you don't believe anything, then 45 minutes later you proclaimed absolute faith in an exaggerated hoax.
Flip-Flop.
Because I brought pictures. Because I show, I don't just tell. I support what I've written with facts. I do the hard work of case-by-case analysis.
Because the Palestinians broke their peace treaty... again. Palestinian soldiers raped, tortured, burned people innocent people alive. The Palestinian and UN produced school curriculum indoctrinates the children into n ideology of hate and purpose directed toward an imaginary villain the "evil jew-zionist". This started in 2007. Enough children have been corrupted by this to form a small army of some of the worst of the worst criminals ever to walk the face of the earth.
That's why.
Nope. No air strike was carried out against that camp.
Nope. You're wrong again. The ICJ ruling did not find anyone guilty of genocide. The verdict was "plausible allegations" and calling for the immediate unconditional return of the hostages.
If you actually watched the ICJ trial you would know it cannot be genocide because israel has provided aid, they provided protection, they provided hospitals, they showed evidence of rocket fire from the hospitals, from residences. They have justified their actions. The ICJ is asking for more documentation. Israel was already in process of doing precisely that. This is why nothing, nothing at all, has changed in israel's attitude and actions post ICJ hearing. It's because they don't need to. There is no genocide, that's just another slogan.
Nope. I'm showing how the media you are consuming is woefully flawed and you seem incapable of recognizing it.
There's a lot of destruction, of course. It's a war-zone. The entire Palestinian infrastructure is being exploited for military purposes. Their nation has declared war on israel. Kidnapping, rape, murder... the Palestinian nation is getting a radically necessary reboot.
It's difficult, seemingly impossible, to fathom that each and every conclusion you've developed about israel is wrong? I get it. Like I mentioned to the other poster, your opinions, your methods for establishing facts about israel, are not shared by those in power. Complain all you want.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
South Africa's case as brought before the ICJ begins around 25:00
South Africa presents its case against Israel at the ICJ
The International Court of Justice (ICJ), the principal judicial organ of the United Nations, holds public hearings on the request for the indication of prov...
Are you going to listen to the rebuttal? When the ICJ declares that the hostages must be immediately and unconditionally released will you suport their decision?
You do realize that the entire conflict changes when the hostages are recovered right?
The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
I'm entirely unconcerned with being taken seriously by you.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
If you had anything of substance you would have brought it. All you have are slogans which I have refuted.
At this point you're preaching to the choir. If that makes you feel good... go ahead. I think it's clear to any reasonable person I have a lot more convincing evidence than you, especially since you've brought NONE.
um. You're doing it again. You just flip-flopped.
"I don't believe anything coming from the region" <--- FLIP
"The disaster being an air raid that was carried out on that camp" <--- FLOP
Flip-flop.
So... which camp was it? When was it raided? Where's the evidence? Has your source been shown to be reliable or unreliable? Are you ready to admit that you don't believe anything with disagrees with you? Welcome to "Cognitive methods of Flat-earth Science-denial 101" with Mr. Kilted-Heathen.
The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
So what would be the point, dybmh? There is no "anything of substance" because you're either going to dismiss it as "biased reporting", Hamas, or try to gaslight us into believing that everything is just peaches. Lying, in a word.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Hiding behind the accusation of "gas-lighting" is just another slogan. If the Palestinian people did not consistently wage war against the israelis, if they did not rape, murder, kidnap, and burn people alive, none of this would be happening right now. If they did not smuggle weapons into israel, attacking on average 5 times a day, ( in Sept 2023 it was on average 10 times a day ) none of this would be happening. If they did not indoctrinate their children with hateful purpose against an imaginary "evil jew-zionist" none of this would be happening.
I absolutely take the Pro-Palestinian point of view seriously, that's how and why I am able to stomp the slogans you've brought into dust.
How about this? Let's pretend you never made the statement about not believing anything coming from the region, OK? That was clearly a blunder. Instead, let's talk about the camp in Rafah. Which camp was raided? When? How do you know? What's your source for that?
The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
Maybe if Zionists weren't colonizing Palestine since the 1940's this really wouldn't be happening. You cannot push people up against the sea and expect them not to fight back.
How about you show a shred of decency and finish out what I said.
To take the most extreme of anti-Palestinian
views as "the Pro-Palestinian" perspective
bespeaks fanatical denial of their humanity.
It's terrible that this is so common among
Jews & Christians.
It dooms the region to endless death,
destruction, oppression & wasting US
taxpayer money.
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
"When Plestia was growing up in Gaza, her mother, Rana, was constantly trying to shield her daughter from the horrors that sometimes descended on the strip."
"Alaqad’s journey from using Instagram to teach outsiders about daily life in Gaza to war reporter happened fast. Before the war she worked for a marketing agency and conducted media training, using Instagram to photograph everyday life in the territory, posting rows of colourful parasols at the beach or sharing selfies with her friends. The goal, she says, was to teach her followers that there was more to Gaza than conflict and destruction.
After Hamas launched an unprecedented raid on Israeli towns and kibbutzim on 7 October, killing 1,200 people and taking hundreds hostage, Alaqad began getting calls to work as a reporter for British and French televisions channels, and her Instagram transformed into a personal account of the war.
Her feed rapidly filled with pictures of destroyed neighbourhoods and strangers sharing their food amid shortages. Alaqad recalls standing in a tent filled with corpses, or walking among the rubble trying to remember the buildings that once stood there."
‘I’m not just covering the news – I’m living it’: Gaza’s citizen journalists chronicling life in war
Plestia Alaqad went from Instagrammer to reporter after her footage of Israel’s assault on besieged enclave went viral
I don't deny that Hamas has done horrific, unjustifiable things, but saying Palestine needs a "radically necessary reboot" that requires killing on a scale that completely dwarfs the offense that started it is a frightening thing to read.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
LOL. You've brought another slogan: "colonizing". That's a fail too. The jewish people legally purchased property from the Arabs starting in the mid 1800s. The Arabs attacked again and again.... No one colonized anything.
Do you even know what colonizing means? When have colonizers ever purchased the land?
No one was pushing them up against the sea. They started a war and won't stop attacking. If I purchase my neighbors house, my neighbor takes my money, signs the contract, then gathers a posse to attack me and my family, they're going to get stomped. If their children cannot stop attacking, they get quarantined. If they continue, they're going to get themselves killed.
There is no doubt that a people will do what you are describing under the circumstances you're describing. But your version of history is either massively incomplete or false. Remember, the Palestinian's are teaching their children false history. The children are not at fault, it's their teachers and parents who are lying to them. Technically, the lying started long ago. It's now been several generations of Palestinians and others who have been educated with a false history. That's why a radical reboot is needed. The schools need to get proper books, proper teachers, proper curriculum.
The story-telling, story-telling in which you are an active participant, is the root cause of the never ending war. The evil jew-zioinst story is goes back a thousand of years for the Palestinian people. It's why they attacked us in the first place.
Dude. Here's the full quote of what you said. It's a sentence.
You haven't believed a "lick of anything". And yet you believe that israel are colonizers, you believe that, israel bombed a camp in the rafah evacuation zone ( but cannot site a source for it ), you believe that israel has bombed ALL the evacuation routes. You believe a lot. That's an absolute flip-flop.
We've conversed before. I'm actually surprised that you're either unwilling or unable to see the mistake.
The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
You really enjoy reading yourself, don't you?