UN Human Rights compared to Islamic Human Rights

[paarsurrey]

Hi paarsurrey,

Isn't it true that often the Quran skips over a certain topic and the Hadith is used to fill in these blank areas?

It is a wrong concept. There are no gaps in Quran. Hadith and other disciplines of knowledge are supportive of Quran and are accepted only if the don't differ with Quran.

Regards

 

[icehorse]

It is a wrong concept. There are no gaps in Quran. Hadith and other disciplines of knowledge are supportive of Quran and are accepted only if the don't differ with Quran.

Regards

Wow! paarsurrey,

What does the Quran advise when it comes to stem cell research? How about the use of pesticides?

paarsurrey, I agree that the Hadith cannot differ with the Quran, but many Muslims have agreed from the very beginning, that the Quran leaves many questions unanswered, which is why the Hadith and Sharia and so on were created - to fill in the gaps.

 

[oldbadger]

Hey there badger,

I'm the first to agree that there are lots of big problems in the world. We're just saying that this is one of them and we shouldn't pretend it's not a problem. And if a person has a mind to, this is perfectly acceptable problem to grapple with.

Hi Icehorse.... Grapple away.... I haven't tried to support Islamic HR policy. When I ran a thread which heavily criticised the pressures which are in some cases placed upon British Islamic infants to learn the Koran, and treatment of Islamic infants in some Brit Madrassas, I was called some fairly nasty names. I'm no supporter of theocracies.

Now...... how are you proposing to grapple with Islamic countries over this? I am really interested to know what your proposals are .........

But if you're just pointing fingers and moaning, I'm not really interested, because there's stuff in my own land that needs sorting out first, that's all.

Just saying.....

 

[icehorse]

Howdy oldbadger,

What I gather from your last post leads me to believe we're largely of a mind on this topic.

Polls indicate that a large percentage of Muslims (call it 30% to be conservative), hold values that are in stark opposition to Western secular values. This simple message must get out into the Western world. The media and most politicians attempt to bury this problem.

So what I propose to do is find ways to get this message out.

Before joining RF, I'd heard a claim that religious folks "give each other cover". For example when Rushdie wrote "The Satanic Verses", Western politicians and Western clergy did NOT condemn the Islamic fatwa, they condemned Rushdie for blasphemy. Wow!

Since joining RF I have seen over and over again how many people jump to the defense of religion. No matter what happens, it's never religion's fault.

In my opinion, if 500 million Muslims, across the entire planet, across many cultures and many different economic situations all agree that apostasy is a crime, then it seems clear that Islamic doctrine is having an effect.

 

[Father Heathen]

P

OK..... Ask me a question, like 'Oldbadger, do you want to live within a rigid theocracy with very severe restrictions, blah blah....'
Answer:- 'Ummmm.... errr... not today, thankyou.'
But here in the UK we do have big HR difficulties at this time, and I for one would sooner concentrate upon those rather than point fingers at others, that's all.

Here's an example. You mentioned people born into lands where they would or could be repressed, mistreated, with unacceptable degrees of human rights. Now turn it round and ask, 'Are we making it easy enough for such folks to take refuge in our countries?' 'What are we doing to help such people?' Answer: Both our lot and your lot make it very very difficult for all refuge seekers to obtain permanent safety in our countries....... = a HR issue where we could do something but don't.

SandandFoam could tell you a few ideas about UK HR..... better than I could, but equally, if you type something like 'american Indian injustice' into the www you'll probably get a page or two of results.

People should always speak out against injustice, regardless of who commits it or where it occurs.

 

[Sabour]

paarsurrey, I agree that the Hadith cannot differ with the Quran, but many Muslims have agreed from the very beginning, that the Quran leaves many questions unanswered, which is why the Hadith and Sharia and so on were created - to fill in the gaps.

That is totally untrue.

 

[icehorse]

That is totally untrue.

Hi One-answer, Well I learn something everyday! So, why were the Hadith and Sharia created in the first place, and what purposes do they serve now?

 

[Sabour]

Hi One-answer, Well I learn something everyday! So, why were the Hadith and Sharia created in the first place, and what purposes do they serve now?

Sharia means a way of life. This sharia is according to what Allah has ordered, according to the Quraan, the word of God. So you can think about it like "Sharia" is putting what Allah has ordered us into practice. Whereas Hadith are the saying of the prophet or describing of how the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him lived. This is because prophets used to live up the message they are sharing with people. The Quraan was best implemented by prophet Muhammad peace be upon him and that is why we look into the hadith and try to better understand things.

So it is not like they were created, but since there is a message to humanity, than living this message is sharia. Since prophet Muhammad peace be upon him was the one who was sharing the message, there is the hadith so that we can understand how that message was put into the real life.

 

[icehorse]

Hi One-answer,

Who created Sharia and how do they know it is "according to what Allah has ordered"?

If the Quran is perfect, why do we need to "better understand things"?

How could they "not be created"?

 

[YmirGF]

So it is not like they were created, but since there is a message to humanity, than living this message is sharia. Since prophet Muhammad peace be upon him was the one who was sharing the message, there is the hadith so that we can understand how that message was put into the real life.

This explains why Sharia is the same everywhere it is the law of the land. Hmmm, wait a sec, that doesn't sound right. It's coming to me.

 

[Sabour]

I just found that interesting

thedebateinitiative.com/2014/11/22/tales-of-the-unexpected-convincing-members-of-english-upper-class-that-sharia-is-fairer-than-english-law/

 

[icehorse]

bump...

Well what the French cartoonists did would be protected under the UNDHR. So here we see a concrete, real-time example of how a really universal agreement on human rights would change the world. In this case, we can also see very clearly how a major religion is in conflict with basic human rights. (BTW, we can easily find - in 2015 - other religions behaving in conflict with human rights, this isn't just about Islam.)