Unbreaking American Hearts

[9-10ths_Penguin]

As long as people continue to use smear terms and caricatures of their opponents in the argument, respectful discussion will continue to elude us. As you wish.

- How is "anti-choice" a smear or a caricature?

- IMO, respect went out the window when the anti-choice side decided on a position that, as I touched on a few pages back, places the value of a pregnant woman somewhere below the value of a corpse.

 

[Nymphs]

I would not say that "many" of them lie. I would assume that the vast majority of them are honest. However, I am not saying that some of them don't lie. And yes, I do condemn lying regardless of the reason. That's just my own opinion. Also, I don't really trust that website to be unbiased. It is clearly a left wing site.

So you aren't even going to consider the claims because you don't trust the website? There is problems with these pregnancy centers. They lie, and it just isn't one or two, it's many of them.

At least Planned Parenthood doesn't pretend to be something it isn't. It is a center providing reproductive health and maternal and child health services. Pregnancy centers masquerade as places to get help, and at least the ones in my area, have lied to women about how far along they are, so if they were seeking an abortion, they wouldn't be able to get it.

And since you seem to not want to read because the site is 'biased', here are several more links:

Common Lies Told By Crisis Pregnancy Centers :: NARAL Pro-Choice Virginia

Undercover footage reveals more crazy “crisis pregnancy center” lies - Salon.com

What I Learned Undercover at a Crisis Pregnancy Center | Caitlin Bancroft

Exposing Fake Clinics

And here is even a wiki with general information:

Crisis pregnancy center - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

These clinics can be incredibly harmful to women because they aren't telling the truth. If all they did was give free pregnancy tests and ultrasounds, I'd be fine with that, but that isn't what they do.

 

[Nymphs]

I don't think reducing the number of CPC's is a good idea.

I do. See my links above (previous post). If we can't reduce the number of them, then we need legislation making sure that they are telling the truth and are not lying to the women who are walking through their doors.

 

[Alceste]

As long as people continue to use smear terms and caricatures of their opponents in the argument, respectful discussion will continue to elude us. As you wish.

I guess I don't see how anti-choice is a "smear", as opposed to an accurate description of the position.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I do. See my links above (previous post). If we can't reduce the number of them, then we need legislation making sure that they are telling the truth and are not lying to the women who are walking through their doors.

The part that is in bold is one I agree with. There's a lot of false information flying out there when women walk through their doors, unsure of what to do with an unwanted pregnancy, but leaning more toward staying pregnant until giving birth.

If that's the case, stop spreading false information, stop with the proselytizing, and start being a medical facility that doubles as an adoption agency and a shelter for single moms.

 

[Nymphs]

The part that is in bold is one I agree with. There's a lot of false information flying out there when women walk through their doors, unsure of what to do with an unwanted pregnancy, but leaning more toward staying pregnant until giving birth.

If that's the case, stop spreading false information, stop with the proselytizing, and start being a medical facility that doubles as an adoption agency and a shelter for single moms.

We need that, and in fact, in my area a few years ago, supporters of Planned Parenthood went down to our capital during a legislative day and tried to get our local representatives to understand why these places (and how they lie) are so dangerous. But because they are practically Tea Baggers they wouldn't even let us in their offices.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Yes, many pro-lifers such as myself are pro-life after the child is born as well.

That said, I subscribe to the Consistent Life Ethic which means that I am against abortion, the death penalty, human cloning, embryonic stem cell research, euthanasia, and any other attack on the dignity of human life.

Notice you did not mention war.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Actually I am very pro-life. I am very pro-life...for me and me only. But when it comes to imposing what I think is right on others...no way. Then I become pro-choice because other people have different circumstances and different lives than I do.

 

[Alceste]

Actually I am very pro-life. I am very pro-life...for me and me only. But when it comes to imposing what I think is right on others...no way. Then I become pro-choice because other people have different circumstances and different lives than I do.

Exactly. I would personally accept an unplanned pregnancy at this stage in my life. I'm not 19 and broke with no career prospects any more, and I'm married to a man who would be a wonderful father, and I live in a stable home. But for women in the situation I was in, I have no right to judge. It would be extremely hypocritical of me to say they shouldn't have the full range of options that I had when I was in their shoes just because my own attitude has changed.

In the end, it's a very personal, private decision between the woman, her partner and her doctor. None of my business, IOW. If asked for my input, I give different advice to different women, depending on what I believe they really want or need to hear.

 

[columbus]

I do. See my links above (previous post). If we can't reduce the number of them, then we need legislation making sure that they are telling the truth and are not lying to the women who are walking through their doors.

You do realize that what you are advocating here is imposing your morality on other people through legislation, right?

Tom

 

[columbus]

I guess I don't see how anti-choice is a "smear", as opposed to an accurate description of the position.

I wouldn't call it a smear either. It's partly true. And I am thick skinned.

But it is not accurate. I am all about choice. I do, however, think that with the freedom to choose comes responsibility for the outcome. Exercise your choice first, not afterwards. If you don't have the ability to take the responsibility for your choices, you don't have the right to make them.

Tom

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Actually I am very pro-life. I am very pro-life...for me and me only. But when it comes to imposing what I think is right on others...no way. Then I become pro-choice because other people have different circumstances and different lives than I do.

Precisely.

Would I accept a pregnancy now? I'm quite sure I would. I kept my pregnancies intact when I was much younger and much more broke and financially unstable than I am now. But I can't say for sure if that is an absolute position.

Regardless, I fail to see how ethical it is to enforce my choices for my body on other people. I am listed as an organ donor because I think that's a highly ethical thing to do. I feel that whatever I can give to help save a life or improve the quality of life for another human being, I will. But I don't see anything ethical about mandating that everyone else make the same decision with their bodies.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You do realize that what you are advocating here is imposing your morality on other people through legislation, right?

Tom

... though in a way that's very much in keeping with existing legislation. Doctors and psychologists already have codes of ethics that prohibit things like making misrepresentations to patients. If these centres are going to purport to fill some quasi-counselling or medical role, then it makes sense to hold them to the normal standards of the counselling or medical professions.

 

[columbus]

Yes, many pro-lifers such as myself are pro-life after the child is born as well.

That said, I subscribe to the Consistent Life Ethic which means that I am against abortion, the death penalty, human cloning, embryonic stem cell research, euthanasia, and any other attack on the dignity of human life.

I have not waded through all 200 posts, so if you responded to the first post I made in this thread, I apologize.

But do you know what Planned Parenthood really does? They work hard trying to prevent crisis pregnancy. And they do a more effective job than any other organization I know of.

I think the reason churches demonize PP is because PP does so much better. Support PP if you are against irresponsible procreation.

Tom

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I have not waded through all 200 posts, so if you responded to the first post I made in this thread, I apologize.

But do you know what Planned Parenthood really does? They work hard trying to prevent crisis pregnancy. And they do a more effective job than any other organization I know of.

I think the reason churches demonize PP is because PP does so much better. Support PP if you are against irresponsible procreation.

Tom

Most Planned Parenthood clinics I have come across are highly professional, and they were the place I went to when I needed to confirm that I was pregnant back in the '90s. I was needing assistance in what my options were at the time, as a poor and single woman who took a pregnancy test that came out positive. The staff at the time was professional and gave me a multitude of options of what I could do in my situation.

From what I understand, the crisis pregnancy centers use the over-the-counter pregnancy tests to see if the result is positive, which is not as reliable.

 

[Alceste]

I wouldn't call it a smear either. It's partly true. And I am thick skinned.

But it is not accurate. I am all about choice. I do, however, think that with the freedom to choose comes responsibility for the outcome. Exercise your choice first, not afterwards. If you don't have the ability to take the responsibility for your choices, you don't have the right to make them.

Tom

By which you mean exercise your choice to have sex, but then be saddled for life with the consequence of a birth control failure if you slip up or something goes wrong.

As I said before, the punishment is unreasonably excessive, given the frivolous and victimless nature of the crime.

 

[Alceste]

I have not waded through all 200 posts, so if you responded to the first post I made in this thread, I apologize.

But do you know what Planned Parenthood really does? They work hard trying to prevent crisis pregnancy. And they do a more effective job than any other organization I know of.

I think the reason churches demonize PP is because PP does so much better. Support PP if you are against irresponsible procreation.

Tom

Hear hear! Both sides of the abortion debate want to see fewer abortions. That is why both should support planned parenthood, which has a proven track record in reducing abortion by providing accurate, non-judgmental information about sex and reproduction and access to far less controversial forms of birth control.

Some churches dislike it because they disapprove of non-procreative sex for theological reasons. Those folks don't have to use the services planned parenthood provides. IMO, It's arrogant and contemptible for them to try to prevent others with less repressive values from accessing these services.

 

[BSM1]

Precisely.

Would I accept a pregnancy now? I'm quite sure I would. I kept my pregnancies intact when I was much younger and much more broke and financially unstable than I am now. But I can't say for sure if that is an absolute position.

I bet you would still look good in a tutu .

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Precisely.



I bet you would still look good in a tutu .

Waist and hips just need to be cinched in just a little bit more to make the tutu's shape stand out.

But, thank you.

Now it's your turn to put on a tutu...

 

[BSM1]

Waist and hips just need to be cinched in just a little bit more to make the tutu's shape stand out.

But, thank you.

Now it's your turn to put on a tutu...

Again??