Unbreaking American Hearts

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It's a unique organism with its own DNA, not a "part of the mother". I'm not interested in playing semantics.

And of course there are no semantic games in your use of terms like "organism". :sarcastic

Tumours also have their own DNA. Merely having DNA is not enough to confer the rights of personhood.

 

[sun rise]

What would be ethical and responsible would be to take responsibility for the child instead of killing it out of selfishness. With sex, people just want the fun without any of the nasty responsibility that comes with it. I think people are just very selfish and only care about themselves. They'll even kill off a part of themselves if it interferes with their plans. It's one thing if there's a health problem or if you've been raped. I can at least understand an abortion in those cases. But to erase a life because you're irresponsible or an "accident" happened? I just can't.

Abortion is one area that really bothers me. What the law should be is one thing. The law is a very blunt instrument and people will get abortions no matter what the law says.

The next question is when the soul enters the fetus, assuming you believe in souls. That's a theological question to which there has been different answers over time.

Then there's the question of what the ethical and moral thing to do about an unplanned pregnancy. And part of this is that such choices come up when the brain is not fully matured which happens in the mid-20's.

Having been young and stupid once, I have a great deal of sympathy for those that are full of desire during the time their brains are not fully developed. Personally I'd like to see emphasis put on logical thinking (understanding logical fallacies) and making good decisions at least in school but ideally at home as well.

 

[kashmir]

Of course people who have children they can't take care of are irresponsible. A huge amount of humans are irresponsible and downright stupid when it comes to sex and reproduction.

Very true.
I have seen some very very stupid people with kids, and their kids were nothing more than pets, or sometimes even tiny slaves.
I seen parents that had no clue that they are supposed to play with their kids, help them with homework etc, and their kids are just a mouth to feed and mostly a burden.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Very true.
I have seen some very very stupid people with kids, and their kids were nothing more than pets, or sometimes even tiny slaves.
I seen parents that had no clue that they are supposed to play with their kids, help them with homework etc, and their kids are just a mouth to feed and mostly a burden.

Mmhmm. I'm basically just disgusted with humanity. I don't really have anything else to say in this thread.

 

[Alceste]

Very true.
I have seen some very very stupid people with kids, and their kids were nothing more than pets, or sometimes even tiny slaves.
I seen parents that had no clue that they are supposed to play with their kids, help them with homework etc, and their kids are just a mouth to feed and mostly a burden.

Yup. For such people, any form of birth control would have been more ethical and responsible than starting a family, IMO.

 

[Revoltingest]

Mmhmm. I'm basically just disgusted with humanity.

Woo hoo!
Detente!

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Call me nuanced if you must, but is a downwards trend in abortion a good thing if it means more irresponsible people are just having the babies?

Prude Tom

But that would be a separate debate that may not be germane to abortion statistics...correct?

 

[kashmir]

Well, do you think that parents should be required to donate organs and tissue (ones they can live without, of course) to their children when needed?

I doubt any parent would not donate to help their own child.
Many do it for people/children they don't even know.

If we get to the point where a parent has to be forced by law to donate blood for their own kid, go ahead and come find me and shoot me in the brains.
:yes:
as your reward, you can have my CD collection

 

[kashmir]

Yup. For such people, any form of birth control would have been more ethical and responsible than starting a family, IMO.

Its not the point, some people just have no clue,it's how they were raised and its how they raise their kids.
There is no law that says one has to play with their child.

I have known of girls who purposely have kids, for welfare to spend on herself and gramma pretty much raises the kids.
I guess growing up in poverty, you see it all.

Not to completely derail this, but back last year when the foodstamp card got shut down, right when the talk about Obama not wanting to let them raise the national budget, I googled thinking the gov done completely shut down everything, (was just a few day fluke or something, no clue)

But I came across a site where bigshot senators, lawyers and professors etc were debating Obama and one thread was about the foodstamp card, I joined in and brought up how druggies give their cards to the drug man,in a foodstamps are not abused topic and these people said I was full of it.
Nothing I said they believed, some people obviously have no idea what goes on in the real world.

They had me so mad that I left, but one of the admins emailed me and wanted me back, cause I did put a lot of them in their place, simple me, lol.
he said I brought real world into there, something they needed.
I couldn't though, so I deleted all cookies, blocked the admin, and never looked back.

 

[LuisDantas]

Very true.
I have seen some very very stupid people with kids, and their kids were nothing more than pets, or sometimes even tiny slaves.
I seen parents that had no clue that they are supposed to play with their kids, help them with homework etc, and their kids are just a mouth to feed and mostly a burden.

So have I. That alone is enough reason to ask whether abortions should be avoided at any cost.

 

[Alceste]

So have I. That alone is enough reason to ask whether abortions should be avoided at any cost.

Exactly, it's not just the unwilling parents who pay the price, it's the kids too. You know, the ones anti-choice activists care so deeply about until they are born, then totally forget about in order to move on to saving the next blastocyst that is being menaced by a woman's exercise of bodily autonomy.

 

[LuisDantas]

Exactly, it's not just the unwilling parents who pay the price, it's the kids too.

Hear!

 

[Nymphs]

Merely having DNA is not enough to confer the rights of personhood.

:yes::bow:

 

[ZooGirl02]

Exactly, it's not just the unwilling parents who pay the price, it's the kids too. You know, the ones anti-choice activists care so deeply about until they are born, then totally forget about in order to move on to saving the next blastocyst that is being menaced by a woman's exercise of bodily autonomy.

You know, I am always hearing this argument that pro-lifers only care about babies until they are born. In my opinion, that is just flat out wrong. There are countless crisis pregnancy centers out there that not only help women to choose life but they also help the woman with baby supplies to raise her child. In addition, they help the woman to get other medical care and to get on welfare if needed for her baby.

 

[Nymphs]

You know, I am always hearing this argument that pro-lifers only care about babies until they are born. In my opinion, that is just flat out wrong. There are countless crisis pregnancy centers out there that not only help women to choose life but they also help the woman with baby supplies to raise her child. In addition, they help the woman to get other medical care and to get on welfare if needed for her baby.

Many of these 'crisis pregnancy centers' also lie to the women who come in. In my particular area, several were investigated into because of what they did. Here is an article detailing what other centers have done as well:

College Is Free After You Have A Baby, And Other Lies That 'Crisis Pregnancy Centers' Tell Real Women | ThinkProgress

 

[Sunstone]

You know, I am always hearing this argument that pro-lifers only care about babies until they are born. In my opinion, that is just flat out wrong. There are countless crisis pregnancy centers out there that not only help women to choose life but they also help the woman with baby supplies to raise her child. In addition, they help the woman to get other medical care and to get on welfare if needed for her baby.

As if that's more than enough. You kind of prove the point you're trying to refute.

 

[Alceste]

You know, I am always hearing this argument that pro-lifers only care about babies until they are born. In my opinion, that is just flat out wrong. There are countless crisis pregnancy centers out there that not only help women to choose life but they also help the woman with baby supplies to raise her child. In addition, they help the woman to get other medical care and to get on welfare if needed for her baby.

Lol - "welfare mom". I'm sure that's the height of aspiration for a teenage rape victim.

I can't call that "help" with a straight face. Sorry.

 

[kashmir]

So have I. That alone is enough reason to ask whether abortions should be avoided at any cost.

The fact that some parents are not very fit to have kids, has nothing to do with abortion because unfit parents are not even having abortions to begin with, hence, you can not be both an unfit parent and have aborted the child at the same time.
Nor can it be possible to show that those who had abortions, would have been an unfit parent.

The biggest thing here is that we should punish unfit parents, the kids are not the ones to blame and deserving to be murdered off as you seem to be suggesting.

No clue what should be done, but we need to deal with unfit parents, and deal with all the careless sex going on that too and not by just letting it continue.
Abortion Statistics: 1.2 Million Babies Die Every Year From Abortions
Is completely disturbing that many babies die every year.
That is in the USA only.
If people do not want kids, either they need to stop all the careless sex, or not have sex at all.
There is no other adult responsibility that one can abuse and get a free out of jail card, specially with murdering innocent life being the get out of jail free card.

I could care less about the "its her body" rebuttals, the fact is, the couple is not being responsible and abortion is NOT the correct answer.

Not in my opinion anyway.

I am going off the idea that "oops, didnt mean to have a kid" thing.
If the majority of those numbers are health/rape thing, then I stand corrected, no way to know that though.

 

[ZooGirl02]

Many of these 'crisis pregnancy centers' also lie to the women who come in. In my particular area, several were investigated into because of what they did. Here is an article detailing what other centers have done as well:

College Is Free After You Have A Baby, And Other Lies That 'Crisis Pregnancy Centers' Tell Real Women | ThinkProgress

I would not say that "many" of them lie. I would assume that the vast majority of them are honest. However, I am not saying that some of them don't lie. And yes, I do condemn lying regardless of the reason. That's just my own opinion. Also, I don't really trust that website to be unbiased. It is clearly a left wing site.

 

[ZooGirl02]

Lol - "welfare mom". I'm sure that's the height of aspiration for a teenage rape victim.

I can't call that "help" with a straight face. Sorry.

Getting on welfare for your child is better than having no help at all isn't it?