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Unbridled Liberty
- Thread starter Tonymai
- Start date
flouncing floo
Member
If one doesn't believe in the existence of god/s for which there is no evidence, then why should you submit to something in which you don't believe?
flouncing floo
Member
What higher 'truth'?
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
By "higher truth" you mean the irrational and unsubstantiated superstitions of ancient savages, right?
Certainly not for me.
There's just no sane reason to believe.
(A lot of other atheists aren't all that big on liberty anyway.)
tumbleweed41
Resident Liberal Hippie
Why must one "submit" to anything?
To avoid being shot?
BruceDLimber
Well-Known Member
From the Baha'i scriptures:
"Chapter 74.
"THE NONEXISTENCE OF EVIL
The true explanation of this subject is very difficult. Know that beings are of two kinds: material and spiritual, those perceptible to the senses and those intellectual.
Things which are sensible are those which are perceived by the five exterior senses; thus those outward existences which the eyes see are called sensible. Intellectual things are those which have no outward existence but are conceptions of the mind. For example, mind itself is an intellectual thing which has no outward existence. All man's characteristics and qualities form an intellectual existence and are not sensible.
Briefly, the intellectual realities, such as all the qualities and admirable perfections of man, are purely good, and exist. Evil is simply their nonexistence. So ignorance is the want of knowledge; error is the want of guidance; forgetfulness is the want of memory; stupidity is the want of good sense. All these things have no real existence.
In the same way, the sensible realities are absolutely good, and evil is due to their nonexistencethat is to say, blindness is the want of sight, deafness is the want of hearing, poverty is the want of wealth, illness is the want of health, death is the want of life, and weakness is the want of strength.
Nevertheless a doubt occurs to the mindthat is, scorpions and serpents are poisonous. Are they good or evil, for they are existing beings? Yes, a scorpion is evil in relation to man; a serpent is evil in relation to man; but in relation to themselves they are not evil, for their poison is their weapon, and by their sting they defend themselves. But as the elements of their poison do not agree with our elementsthat is to say, as there is antagonism between these different elements, therefore, this antagonism is evil; but in reality as regards themselves they are good.
The epitome of this discourse is that it is possible that one thing in relation to another may be evil, and at the same time within the limits of its proper being it may not be evil. Then it is proved that there is no evil in existence; all that God created He created good. This evil is nothingness; so death is the absence of life. When man no longer receives life, he dies. Darkness is the absence of light: when there is no light, there is darkness. Light is an existing thing, but darkness is nonexistent. Wealth is an existing thing, but poverty is nonexisting.
Then it is evident that all evils return to nonexistence. Good exists; evil is nonexistent.
Some Answered Questions, pp. 282-284
Peace,
Bruce
"Chapter 74.
"THE NONEXISTENCE OF EVIL
The true explanation of this subject is very difficult. Know that beings are of two kinds: material and spiritual, those perceptible to the senses and those intellectual.
Things which are sensible are those which are perceived by the five exterior senses; thus those outward existences which the eyes see are called sensible. Intellectual things are those which have no outward existence but are conceptions of the mind. For example, mind itself is an intellectual thing which has no outward existence. All man's characteristics and qualities form an intellectual existence and are not sensible.
Briefly, the intellectual realities, such as all the qualities and admirable perfections of man, are purely good, and exist. Evil is simply their nonexistence. So ignorance is the want of knowledge; error is the want of guidance; forgetfulness is the want of memory; stupidity is the want of good sense. All these things have no real existence.
In the same way, the sensible realities are absolutely good, and evil is due to their nonexistencethat is to say, blindness is the want of sight, deafness is the want of hearing, poverty is the want of wealth, illness is the want of health, death is the want of life, and weakness is the want of strength.
Nevertheless a doubt occurs to the mindthat is, scorpions and serpents are poisonous. Are they good or evil, for they are existing beings? Yes, a scorpion is evil in relation to man; a serpent is evil in relation to man; but in relation to themselves they are not evil, for their poison is their weapon, and by their sting they defend themselves. But as the elements of their poison do not agree with our elementsthat is to say, as there is antagonism between these different elements, therefore, this antagonism is evil; but in reality as regards themselves they are good.
The epitome of this discourse is that it is possible that one thing in relation to another may be evil, and at the same time within the limits of its proper being it may not be evil. Then it is proved that there is no evil in existence; all that God created He created good. This evil is nothingness; so death is the absence of life. When man no longer receives life, he dies. Darkness is the absence of light: when there is no light, there is darkness. Light is an existing thing, but darkness is nonexistent. Wealth is an existing thing, but poverty is nonexisting.
Then it is evident that all evils return to nonexistence. Good exists; evil is nonexistent.
Some Answered Questions, pp. 282-284
Peace,
Bruce
When we were immature, we were not able to comprehend some truths. The higher truths are lived when one becomes knows more, feels more and experiences more. Evidence of One Deity comes as a result of continuous grow towards maturity via an individual's endless search for what is true. Through evolution, Science grows, philosophy enlarges, and religion progresses. The end result is one Deity: the Original cause of science, the Unity of religion, and the loving Father of religion.
Lol,show us the higher truth
Looncall
Well-Known Member
How do you know there is any such thing?
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
You refer to god as a "father". Why would an infinite, all-encompassing, omnimax being have a sex or gender? To anthropomorphize the concept diminishes it.
Funny it is....I see the exact opposite.
As we mature, we cast off beliefs lacking evidence.
Darkness
Psychoanalyst/Marxist
I am an atheist agnostic and I am not all that big on the sort of liberty (i.e. negative liberty) the OP is suggesting atheists are.
The root of atheism is lack of evidence.
What is this obsession with submission? I don't understand it.
I have to agree with Revoltingest, Tonymai. Intellectual maturity breeds skepticism.
This deity or original cause -- where is the evidence for it? Has it actually been studied? observed? measured? peer-reviewed? Is it even falsifiable?
If there is real evidence for this deity, why is there no general agreement about him/her/it?
What is this obsession with submission? I don't understand it.
I have to agree with Revoltingest, Tonymai. Intellectual maturity breeds skepticism.
This deity or original cause -- where is the evidence for it? Has it actually been studied? observed? measured? peer-reviewed? Is it even falsifiable?
If there is real evidence for this deity, why is there no general agreement about him/her/it?
