Unconditional Love verses Conditional Rewards

[stvdv]

27 jun 2018 stvdv 013 29
God is known for "unconditional Love". What does this mean? It seems it not only confuses me

Meaning God Loves a serial killer/rapist. Even if you kill all Native Indians, Jews or animals, God will love you

Not meaning "God loves you for doing the killing part". God loves you, because that is what God does best

Tricky part: God loves unconditional BUT God Grants conditional His rewards. Like in School and Games

Quite simple to me once I could see there is a difference between "God's Love" and "God's Rewards"

Strange thing: Sometimes it seems the bad guys get the million boons, how about that? Interesting point IMO

Curious how many (dis)agree. That's why I included a little simple poll [multiple choices]

Note: Of course I know nothing about God, and how He might feel (today). I even feel not always the same
Note: So all this is just Hypothetically speaking trying to get a grip on this confusing matter
Note: Again of course hypothesis = Let's assume God exist and Has Love and Grants Rewards

NOTE: Thank you @adrian009 pointing out my mistake. To me "Unconditional Love" is clear, but "I am at a loss" that people in name of their religion do so many cruel things shouting "Allah o Akbar" or "Love thy neighbor as thyself".

 

[Dawnofhope]

You sound confused my friend about the 'Christian' perspective with their unconditionally loving God. Its easy. Let me help you....

God loves us unconditionally but if we don't do what He asks in a few key areas of easy to understand theology (trinity, resurrection, Divinity) He sends us to hell for eternity.

God forgives the psychopathic, genocidal killer if He repents and says Jesus is Lord.

God doesn't forgive the Hindu who devotes their entire life to helping humanity because he doesn't say Jesus is Lord

Go in peace my brother

 

[Mox]

You find out the meaning of unconditional love when you have kids.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

God is known for "unconditional Love". What does this mean? It seems it not only confuses me

Meaning God Loves a serial killer/rapist. Even if you kill all Native Indians, Jews or animals, God will love you

Not meaning "God loves you for doing the killing part". God loves you, because that is what God does best

Tricky part: God loves unconditional BUT God Grants conditional His rewards. Like in School and Games

Quite simple to me once I could see there is a difference between "God's Love" and "God's Rewards"

Strange thing: Sometimes it seems the bad guys get the million boons, how about that? Interesting point IMO

Curious how many (dis)agree. That's why I included a little simple poll [multiple choices]

Note: Of course I know nothing about God, and how He might feel (today). I even feel not always the same
Note: So all this is just Hypothetically speaking trying to get a grip on this confusing matter
Note: Again of course hypothesis = Let's assume God exist and Has Love and Grants Rewards

When you have conditions "for" love it is no longer unconditional. Love has no reservations. When a parent loves their child, ideally they are not asking or even telling their child they need to do this or love them in return before the parent loves them. Not all parents are like this; but, it's ideal.

I wish I knew what Jews and Muslims take on gods love and whether it's unconditional or not. The Christian god is definitely conditional.

No love is based on whether one worshiped someone else. There are no stipulations. You give gifts for the act of giving not the expectation you will get something on return.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You find out the meaning of unconditional love when you have kids.

Do you love your child because he loves you or do you love him whether he loves you back?


Some parents have love for their child but that love is also an action not just an emotion. So, when the child is aging they teach their child how to love. If that child doesn't express love to others, it's a disadvantage to the child and parent. So the parent continues to teach.

Some parents get disappointed in so much their love for their child becomes conditional (specially during teen years)

It's not a bad thing to have conditions on love. Its actually healthy because it teaches a child how to go beyond emotions but to express instead.

If it is unconditional, the child may be taken advantage of. He may think because he is loves unconditionally, regardless of what he does, people will love him in return. Conditional love when it's ideally practices is more productive than unconditional.

When love is unconditional, to what is that love based on beyond a mother or father biological and psychological connection with their child?

If it's spiritual, do you teach your child that expression of love or do you teach him he can have love without expression? (And how would that work in his relationships?)

To me personally that develops a sense of dependency. What is unconditional love to you?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You sound confused my friend about the 'Christian' perspective with their unconditionally loving God. Its easy. Let me help you....

God loves us unconditionally but if we don't do what He asks in a few key areas of easy to understand theology (trinity, resurrection, Divinity) He sends us to hell for eternity.

God forgives the psychopathic, genocidal killer if He repents and says Jesus is Lord.

God doesn't forgive the Hindu who devotes their entire life to helping humanity because he doesn't say Jesus is Lord

Go in peace my brother

Do you actually believe god does not forgive a Hindu because he doesn't love the Abraham 's god?

Isn't that a condition in direct definition of the terms that ones love is based on another person's request or behavior for forgiveness and not the act of forgiveness itself without reservation?

 

[pearl]

God doesn't forgive the Hindu who devotes their entire life to helping humanity because he doesn't say Jesus is Lord

I think you know this is absolutely false.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Do you actually believe god does not forgive a Hindu because he doesn't love the Abraham 's god?

Of course not.

Isn't that a condition in direct definition of the terms that ones love is based on another person's request or behavior for forgiveness and not the act of forgiveness itself without reservation?

Thats correct. That is a condition so it can't be unconditional love.

I was being ironic and highlighting the absurdity and contradictions when we talk about God loving unconditionally.

I think @stvdv understands irony.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I think you know this is absolutely false.

Of course it is. But you and I know some Christians take John 14:6 in an exclusive manner.

 

[Windwalker]

God is known for "unconditional Love". What does this mean? It seems it not only confuses me

Meaning God Loves a serial killer/rapist. Even if you kill all Native Indians, Jews or animals, God will love you

Not meaning "God loves you for doing the killing part". God loves you, because that is what God does best

Tricky part: God loves unconditional BUT God Grants conditional His rewards. Like in School and Games

Quite simple to me once I could see there is a difference between "God's Love" and "God's Rewards"

Strange thing: Sometimes it seems the bad guys get the million boons, how about that? Interesting point IMO

Curious how many (dis)agree. That's why I included a little simple poll [multiple choices]

Note: Of course I know nothing about God, and how He might feel (today). I even feel not always the same
Note: So all this is just Hypothetically speaking trying to get a grip on this confusing matter
Note: Again of course hypothesis = Let's assume God exist and Has Love and Grants Rewards

A way to think of this that may be helpful is to remove the idea that God's Love is separate from his creation. The notion that Love is something that God "has" is the source of confusion and the above dilemmas. To say on the other hand that God is Love, as opposed to "has love", means that Divine Love is the nature of God, and that all that is arises out of that Love, as an act or expression of the Divine Being itself. So it is impossible for their to be any "conditions" in order for God to give something ostensibly withheld.

Now as far as "rewards" or "boons", that is entirely a matter of the individual's receptivity to what is already fully there in the whole of creation at every instant. If your eyes are opened to what God is in every moment, then the gifts of creation parade before you and you receive them. The simple sight of a bird flying over your head is seen, not as "just a bird", but a miracle of Life and a gift to take into your soul, which fills you with Joy. It is simply a matter of perception, of seeing, or of not-seeing. At this point, God is not seen as "other", where that Love of God appears elsewhere, but God is seen as All, of which you wholly are a participant in Life itself.

The real question is not does God love the "sinner", but does the "sinner" see God and thus know Love?

 

[stvdv]

27 jun 2018 stvdv 013 38

You sound confused my friend about the 'Christian' perspective with their unconditionally loving God. Its easy. Let me help you....

God loves us unconditionally but if we don't do what He asks in a few key areas of easy to understand theology (trinity, resurrection, Divinity) He sends us to hell for eternity.

God forgives the psychopathic, genocidal killer if He repents and says Jesus is Lord.

God doesn't forgive the Hindu who devotes their entire life to helping humanity because he doesn't say Jesus is Lord

Go in peace my brother

Aha, here we have "sound" again. You are right, I made a mistake there. I meant to say, for me "unconditional Love" is a very clear concept. And I am "at a loss" how some Christians can act very cruel "Loving their neighbors" sending them to hell. So I tried to figure out how/why they think so. That is why I came to "Unconditional Love" + "Conditional Reward", but still "Unconditional Love".

Seeing your frubals [frown] + [confused] + [eek]
We seem to be on the same frequency
Thanks for pointing out my inconsistency and keep me sharp
Thanks for the "Peace" brother

May God Bless us All
[This became my favorite since I have seen Muslims use this on RF]

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Of course not.



Thats correct. That is a condition so it can't be unconditional love.

I was being ironic and highlighting the absurdity and contradictions when we talk about God loving unconditionally.

I think @stvdv understands irony.

Ha. Was about to say. So unlike you

 

[stvdv]

27 jun 2018 stvdv 013 39

You find out the meaning of unconditional love when you have kids.

If it were true, how come your parents did not figure that out, and taught you this?
It seems like "Putting the cart before the horse", or maybe "the horse behind the cart", as we say in Dutch
[First develop Love, then have sex and make babies. That is the best way to make healthy babies IMHO]

That is so great about Indian culture. Young kids go to their Gurus who teach Unconditional Love. Indian spirituality is really great
Now it's obvious. Parents learn about Unconditional Love when it is too late to teach their children [vicious circle with child trauma's]

 

[WalterTrull]

My personal belief is that the term "love" is very misunderstood and probably mis-translated. My feeling is that it is awareness of the unity of being. The terms God and reward used together seem oxymoronic.

 

[stvdv]

27 jun 2018 stvdv 013 40

You find out the meaning of unconditional love when you have kids.

I do not agree with this. Kids are all about your attachments. Heck they are born because you could not control your sex drive.
But mother love is of a level closer to Unconditional Love than most other "human love" types. God Love is Unconditional only IMHO

When you have conditions "for" love it is no longer unconditional

True

The Christian god is definitely conditional

Unconditional Love is attributed to God. Talking Christian God is already conditional. Now we understand why Christians have hard time with it.

If that child doesn't express love to others, it's a disadvantage to the child and parent.

If kid can't express love to others it only proves that parents failed in teaching love. Which is proven by stating "parents learn when having kids"

So the parent continues to teach

Fourth mistake many parents make.
First failing to learn themselves before making their kids.
Second failing to teach kids [obviously you can't give what you don't have].
Third blaming kid for not having love [some parents do, you might be surprised how many].
Fourth keep on teaching.

Solution is very simple IMHO: If you see your kid has no love, you go to your child and tell "I am so sorry that I failed in teaching you properly. Will you please forgive me this huge mistake. I did my best, but I was not good enough. From now on we are equals, and I can learn from you maybe more than you from me".

This way you give your child finally the respect it deserves. And only this way you can repair your mistake IMHO [much better than praying to God is correcting your mistake to the ones you harmed IMHO]. The whole praying thing is good for your own feeling, the "please forgive me thing is good for the one you harm". An Indonesian couple told me that this is what they do when their kids are 18 years [ask their kid to forgive the mistakes made and consequently hurt done]. I thought it was brilliant. And parents might be surprised how good their children can be in forgiving their parents. Much better than parents are in asking for forgiveness [my experience looking around me]. Saying sorry seems to be the hardest thing for many people. Which is strange I think.

Bible even is clear in this one "Fathers do not provoke your sons" [seems to be a father thing, never read mothers do this. Feminism maybe now]
And Bible is clear "no need to pray, before clearing your mistakes with the other etc"

It's not a bad thing to have conditions on love

I rather would say "It's perfect to develop first Unconditional Love. When you have (seen) that you probably won't make that statement. You might say "My love is unconditional", but "actions have consequences", but with these consequences "Love stays unconditional"

If it is unconditional, the child may be taken advantage of

I have seen the perfection of Unconditional Love, meeting Sai Baba. Nobody could take advantage of Him. He only was giving. Once the guys for tax came to see Sai Baba [actually they came to see dollars or rupees of course]. True story as far as I know.
First question "what is your name", he answered with "God"
Second question "what are your possessions?", he answered "the whole world is mine"
Might have been a few more. But I can't remember. Anyway the tax collector gave up after all this
After Sai Baba died they came back to collect some taxes.
So that is why Sai Baba always urges us "first get enlightened, then you can be of help in the world", except for tax collectors of course
Using my common sense, I think this really makes sense.

When love is unconditional, to what is that love based on beyond a mother or father biological and psychological connection with their child?

That is why in India they have Gurus who are enlightened. They are the ones who can enlighten you on these kind of questions.

(And how would that work in his relationships?

People ask all kind of questions, just to avoid the inconvenient questions that still hunt the real seeker

To me personally that develops a sense of dependency.

Conditional Love = Dependancy
Unconditional Love = Total Freedom

What is unconditional love to you?

The smartest question to ask "Who am I". When you find your answer to this, all other questions will be answered [wisdom from the wise]

 

[stvdv]

27 jun 2018 stvdv 013 41

I think @stvdv understands irony.

Normally I am not so good at irony, but your frubals gave it away this time [They are really great on RF to color and convey stuff].

 

[Mox]

Do you love your child because he loves you or do you love him whether he loves you back?

I love or are attached to my children because essentially, biological programming compels me to. They are loved regardless of whether they hate my guts or think I am super dad. I care little on that score. I am their father, with their best interests at heart. They will find me intolerable as I set their boundaries and make decrees, I am the first to remind my kids our household is not a democracy. It is a benign dictatorship, with two power sharing dictators.

I do not teach my children that they should love others unconditionally, I think that kind of love can only be reserved for living things that are to some degree or other, not wholly responsible for their actions. Like children and other animals.

 

[Mox]

I do not agree with this. Kids are all about your attachments. Heck they are born because you could not control your sex drive.
But mother love is of a level closer to Unconditional Love than most other "human love" types. God Love is Unconditional only IMHO

Highly offensive. Unless you were speaking generalistically. Although still somewhat offensive.

I am in complete control of my sex drive, I chose to have children.

God love is a meaningless concept to me. I can only feel attachment for actually existing things. Like people, animals or plants etc..

Essentially I have no idea what you are talking about. Since nobody can possibly know what God is or even if he/she experiences human attachment or if you prefer, love.

 

[Mox]

Love is simply attachment, whether it is conditional or unconditional. It is nothing special. There is no mystery or magic there.

 

[Mox]

If it were true, how come your parents did not figure that out, and taught you this?

I have no idea what you are talking about. Sorry.