Undercover atheists in LDS Church

[Mr Spinkles]

So, FireOfTheCovenant, are you Mormon, or ex-Mormon, or what? What does "new order Mormon" mean? I'm just curious.

 

[zomg]

So, FireOfTheCovenant, are you Mormon, or ex-Mormon, or what? What does "new order Mormon" mean? I'm just curious.

I haven't attended church by my own choice in over 18 months. I don't consider myself an orthodox Mormon. I haven't removed my name for several reasons - the main one being family reasons.

"New Order Mormon is those who no longer believe some (or much) of the dogma or doctrines of the LDS Church, but who want to maintain membership for cultural, social, or even spiritual reasons. New Order Mormons recognize both good and bad in the Church, and have determined that the Church does not have to be perfect in order to remain useful. New Order Mormons seek the middle way to be Mormon." - from the website.

Does that answer your question?

 

[Katzpur]

The prayer was recorded on the podcast. Reminded me of the prayers from Lamoni and his father. They wanted to know about God, prayed and had a 19th century religious reaction to said prayers.

* * * * * * * *.

The two podcasters said they had faith as a grain of a mustard seed but the baptism still happened. They didn't lie about that.

They lied about how much faith they had. "Faith the size of a mustard seed" is not the name thing as "zero faith." If they'd had some faith, any faith, their answer would have been truthful, but you know as well as I do that they had no faith.

Also, why didn't the missionaries and various LDS leaders' gift of discernment see through their false intentions?

Somehow, I think you're equating the gift of discernment with the gift of mind-reading.

 

[Katzpur]

So, FireOfTheCovenant, are you Mormon, or ex-Mormon, or what? What does "new order Mormon" mean? I'm just curious.

A New Order Mormon is an ex-Mormon without the balls to make a clean break.

 

[zomg]

* * * * * * * *.

They lied about how much faith they had. "Faith the size of a mustard seed" is not the name thing as "zero faith." If they'd had some faith, any faith, their answer would have been truthful, but you know as well as I do that they had no faith.

Somehow, I think you're equating the gift of discernment with the gift of mind-reading.

Oh, come on! The Lamanite kings didn't believe in a "God". Just a "great Spirit". Ammon teaches them and they pray to know if God is there. Suddenly, people are dropping like flies being "caught up in the Spirit". I felt that the podcaster's prayer was sincere. They asked to know if baptism was the right step.

What is faith, anyway? Is it following the things missionaries ask you to do? The missionaries challenged them to be baptized and they accepted. That, to me, shows faith in some form.

Gift of discernment/mind-reading...it's all the same. Why didn't the Holy Ghost tell ANYONE that these people were supposedly up to no good?

 

[zomg]

A New Order Mormon is an ex-Mormon without the balls to make a clean break.

Oh, please.

You really have NO IDEA what it's like to tell your Mormon family you don't believe any more. My relationship with several of my family members has been severely affected. So don't accuse me of being "without the balls to make a clean break." You have no idea so I'd appreciate it if you didn't assume I am a coward.

 

[Katzpur]

I felt that the podcaster's prayer was sincere.

Good grief. How naive are you any way?

They asked to know if baptism was the right step.

I thought you said they didn't get an answer.

What is faith, anyway? Is it following the things missionaries ask you to do? The missionaries challenged them to be baptized and they accepted. That, to me, shows faith in some form.

To me, it shows that they were a couple of con artists.

Gift of discernment/mind-reading...it's all the same.

Why didn't the Holy Ghost tell ANYONE that these people were supposedly up to no good?

Maybe they didn't even question it. How often does this kind of deception happen anyway? Someone says they have only a small amount of faith but they still want to be baptized. You're suggesting the missionaries were supposed to just assume they were lying and say, "No way."

 

[Katzpur]

Oh, please.

You really have NO IDEA what it's like to tell your Mormon family you don't believe any more. My relationship with several of my family members has been severely affected. So don't accuse me of being "without the balls to make a clean break." You have no idea so I'd appreciate it if you didn't assume I am a coward.

Whatever.

 

[zomg]

Here is Ross' prayer - "Dear Heavenly Father, we've tried to learn as much as we can and read and study and we've listened to the words of the Elders who have been missionaries to us. And we want to know if what we're hearing about you is true. And we have a lot of natural doubts and questions and we've tried to be as honest about those as possible. So please just, if you see fit, bless this venture we are making to be baptized into the church an maybe take that leap of faith."

Carrie's - "And Hevenly Father you'll recall that our Elders told us that we could have the tiniest faith possible and still make this jump. And I think that I can honestly say that Ross and I have the tiniest faith possible here but we're willing to make the jump to learn more and get closer to your truth if that's what it is."

Ross - "And if you do hear this prayer and you do want to speak to us, we are all ears."

Carrie - "We pray these things in the name of your alleged Son, Jesus Christ, Amen."

Lamoni's Dad from the BoM - "O God, Aaron hath told me that there is a God; and if there is a God, and if thou art God, wilt thou make thyself known unto me, and I will give away all my sins to know thee, and that I may be raised from the dead, and be saved at the last day."

 

[zomg]

Whatever.

Classic. You know I'm right. Marriages end when spouses disbelieve Mormonism. Family shun family when Mormonism is abandoned.

 

[zomg]

Good grief. How naive are you any way?

As I said before, I WAS a believing Mormon for years

I thought you said they didn't get an answer.

They didn't. But sometimes people receive an answer AFTER doing what God wants them to do. Or so I was taught in church.

To me, it shows that they were a couple of con artists.

Possibly. Maybe they were just following in Joseph Smith's footsteps :beach:

Prophets in the BoM are able to perceive people's intentions and attempts to trip them up. Missionaries are promised the Spirit to be with them...you know...the one who will teach the truth of all things. Why did it fail them?

Maybe they didn't even question it. How often does this kind of deception happen anyway? Someone says they have only a small amount of faith but they still want to be baptized. You're suggesting the missionaries were supposed to just assume they were lying and say, "No way."

I don't know. Maybe the missionaries wanted their numbers to go up.

 

[Katzpur]

Classic. You know I'm right.

Don't tell me what I know. I absolutely don't know you're right. But I'll give you this... You know your own family. I've never met them or you. Maybe they're that kind of people.

Marriages end when spouses disbelieve Mormonism. Family shun family when Mormonism is abandoned.

Really? Neither my parents nor I shunned my sister when she stopped believing (I have no other siblings). Neither my husband nor I shunned either of our two grown children when they stopped believing. My cousin's marriage didn't end when his wife stopped believing. I suspect that this shunning you're so sure is going to happen may have more to do with your newfound antagonistic attitude than it does with your disbelief.

 

[zomg]

Well, we both know you aren't the typical Mormon. And I mean that as a compliment.

 

[Shades-o-Blue]

Well, we both know you aren't the typical Mormon. And I mean that as a compliment.

Are you a temple recommend holder, Fire?

 

[zomg]

Are you a temple recommend holder, Fire?

No, it expired early last year.

My wife's is still active

 

[Breathe]

Here is Ross' prayer - "Dear Heavenly Father, we've tried to learn as much as we can and read and study and we've listened to the words of the Elders who have been missionaries to us. And we want to know if what we're hearing about you is true. And we have a lot of natural doubts and questions and we've tried to be as honest about those as possible. So please just, if you see fit, bless this venture we are making to be baptized into the church an maybe take that leap of faith."

Carrie's - "And Hevenly Father you'll recall that our Elders told us that we could have the tiniest faith possible and still make this jump. And I think that I can honestly say that Ross and I have the tiniest faith possible here but we're willing to make the jump to learn more and get closer to your truth if that's what it is."

Ross - "And if you do hear this prayer and you do want to speak to us, we are all ears."

Carrie - "We pray these things in the name of your alleged Son, Jesus Christ, Amen."

Is that nought but a cleverly worded prayer way of saying "I don't believe you're there - but if I'm wrong, then that'd be okay, I'll accept your existence"?

Bearing in mind, there the majority of atheists who would believe in God if there was existence for it, and they aren't getting baptised into a church and agreeing to follow rules they have no intention of doing?

 

[Shades-o-Blue]

No, it expired early last year.

My wife's is still active

Any plans to get it renewed? And if so, can you answer the questions honestly and still walk out with an updated one?

 

[zomg]

Any plans to get it renewed? And if so, can you answer the questions honestly and still walk out with an updated one?

This isn't the topic of the thread.

No plans on getting it renewed. Answering the questions honestly might get me disfellowshipped

 

[JacobEzra.]

LDS church seems to be a bit tribal

 

[Katzpur]

LDS church seems to be a bit tribal

Oh, but not the Catholic Church.