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Understanding Cosmology (Post 1)

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
No it isnt, it is meant to reserve use of the word knowledge for things we can show reliable evidence for.

I'm a part of the cosmos the way a toe-nail is part of a body. That doesn't make the properties of the toe nail the same as the properties of the brain or of the body as a whole in my view.

Calling it delusion suggests it is not knowledge, but I believe that what I have said is amply demonstrable with respect to the body. With respect to the universe as a whole I believe we are not currently able to observe its properties as a whole therefore I do not call things which may or may not be true such as the universe having conciousness as knowledge.
Knowledge is not limited to that in which a second party must be involved.

You are merely making a mental distinction, you are in fact every part of your body, the toe-nail and the rest. While it is true that you are the toe-nail, the toe-nail is not you. In the same way, God is you, but you are not God.

The Cosmos is expressing through you, it is you, but you are not the Cosmos. In the same way your toe-nail cannot know you, you/science likewise cannot know the Cosmos.

How does one become united with the Cosmos/God? By doing nothing, the Cosmos is you, just realize it by not thinking anything, the expresser and the expression are one.
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
The problem is this is an egocentric view of many beliefs that claim they are only ones to enlighten others of some sort of exclusive truth they believe.

The problem is you are one in Plato's Cave.

Simply no. Unfortunately you chose cosmology to argue your case where you have little or no basic knowledge
No one can enlighten another, it is an internal realization.

There is no problem, everything is perfect as it is at any moment.

The Cosmos is God, concepts like God and Cosmos represent the same one absolute reality, and the last time I checked, science only knows a little of the 5%.
 

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
The problem is this is an egocentric view of many beliefs that claim they are only ones to enlighten others of some sort of exclusive truth they believe.

The problem is you are one in Plato's Cave.

Simply no. Unfortunately you chose cosmology to argue your case where you have little or no basic knowledge


Funny how anyone who cites Plato’s Cave thinks the allegory applies to everyone but themselves. The point is that none of us see reality; we all see approximate representations of reality. Recognising this, and applying this knowledge to ourselves not to others, is the beginning of enlightenment; but only the beginning.
 

danieldemol

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Only you can change your mind. But that which doesn’t change, doesn’t grow.
'By the age of 6, the size of the brain increases to about 90% of its volume in adulthood.

Then, in our 30s and 40s, the brain starts to shrink(link is external and opens in a new window), with the shrinkage rate increasing even more by age 60.'

Source: Changes That Occur to the Aging Brain | Columbia Mailman.

At my age the brain is shrinking not growing, so not worth worrying about a lack of change in my view.
 

danieldemol

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Knowledge is not limited to that in which a second party must be involved.
Perhaps, but it is limited to that in which a reasonable party is involved in my view. In other words to me if it can't be demonstrated to a reasonable person it's not knowledge whether that person is the first party or the second.
You are merely making a mental distinction, you are in fact every part of your body,
Im the combined lot of every part of my body at best in my view.
the toe-nail and the rest. While it is true that you are the toe-nail, the toe-nail is not you. In the same way, God is you, but you are not God.

The Cosmos is expressing through you, it is you, but you are not the Cosmos. In the same way your toe-nail cannot know you, you/science likewise cannot know the Cosmos.
If science doesn't know it it is not necessarily knowable. I'd consider it unlikely that you have any significantly greater knowledge of the cosmos than our top scientists do in my view (and perhaps even that is being generous)
How does one become united with the Cosmos/God? By doing nothing, the Cosmos is you, just realize it by not thinking anything, the expresser and the expression are one.
I see myself as part of the whole, but I see the whole as the combined lot of its parts. I see no benefit to confusing the two (whole and parts of the whole).

Also the cosmos is not my God simply because I do not choose it to be that.
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
Perhaps, but it is limited to that in which a reasonable party is involved in my view. In other words to me if it can't be demonstrated to a reasonable person it's not knowledge whether that person is the first party or the second.

Im the combined lot of every part of my body at best in my view.

If science doesn't know it it is not necessarily knowable. I'd consider it unlikely that you have any significantly greater knowledge of the cosmos than our top scientists do in my view (and perhaps even that is being generous)

I see myself as part of the whole, but I see the whole as the combined lot of its parts. I see no benefit to confusing the two (whole and parts of the whole).

Also the cosmos is not my God simply because I do not choose it to be that.
When it comes to religious meditation, one must transcend duality, so long as there is a 'you' wanting or not wanting, reason, knowledge, view, demonstration, spiritual realization, etc., spiritual realization is impossible.

What you call scientific knowledge is dualistic in nature, it is conceptual, equations, descriptions, etc., these may represent some reality but they are not the reality they represent. But to be clear, science has its place, as does religion, if anyone takes the position that science can realize that which religious practice can realize, they are mistaken, as would anyone who imagines religion can provide the knowledge to build an airplane.

Don't try and mix the science and religious practice.

If you have not realized that represented by the concept God, then you are no in a position to choose, for it is yet merely a concept in your mind, the reality of which is still unrealized.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Funny how anyone who cites Plato’s Cave thinks the allegory applies to everyone but themselves. The point is that none of us see reality; we all see approximate representations of reality. Recognising this, and applying this knowledge to ourselves not to others, is the beginning of enlightenment; but only the beginning.
No, it applies to those that think there way is the only way and everybody else is wrong as in the claims of @Ben Dhyan ,
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
No one can enlighten another, it is an internal realization.

There is no problem, everything is perfect as it is at any moment.

The Cosmos is God, concepts like God and Cosmos represent the same one absolute reality, and the last time I checked, science only knows a little of the 5%.
The problem is this is an egocentric view of many beliefs that claim they are only ones to enlighten others of some sort of exclusive truth they believe.

The problem is you are one in Plato's Cave.

Simply no. Unfortunately you chose cosmology to argue your case where you have little or no basic knowledge
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
The problem is this is an egocentric view of many beliefs that claim they are only ones to enlighten others of some sort of exclusive truth they believe.

The problem is you are one in Plato's Cave.

Simply no. Unfortunately you chose cosmology to argue your case where you have little or no basic knowledge
See my post #282 above, please stop wasting my time.
 

ppp

Well-Known Member
No one can enlighten another, it is an internal realization.

There is no problem, everything is perfect as it is at any moment.

The Cosmos is God, concepts like God and Cosmos represent the same one absolute reality, and the last time I checked, science only knows a little of the 5%.
How can you tell how much of the 5 percent is left to know?
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
How can you tell how much of the 5 percent is left to know?
Well apparently, since the best current knowledge of science according to that well known scientist shunyadragon here on RF, responding to my question concerning one of the most fundamental things of the 5%, as to what comprises an electron, is that it is a fuzzyball, I would say about 4.9%.
 

danieldemol

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Don't try and mix the science and religious practice.
I'd assert that it's not me who's doing that. In a "science and religion" debates section, it is perfectly valid to point out the religious practice you keep raising here in this section is not science in my view.
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
I'd assert that it's not me who's doing that. In a "science and religion" debates section, it is perfectly valid to point out the religious practice you keep raising here in this section is not science in my view.
It is a bit of a grey area I admit, but while I have practiced religion seriously most of my life, I simultaneously earned my living working in electronics, radio, radar, satellite imaging, etc., so I do some speculating in both areas and noting possible common ground in places.
 

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
It is a bit of a grey area I admit, but while I have practiced religion seriously most of my life, I simultaneously earned my living working in electronics, radio, radar, satellite imaging, etc., so I do some speculating in both areas and noting possible common ground in places.


This is quite a well trodden path and an interesting one, as I’m sure you’re aware. Erwin Schrodinger and Robert Oppenheimer both had an interest in Vedic literature some of the principles of which they saw reflections of in quantum theory. David Bohm kept up a long correspondence with spiritual guru Jay Krishnamurti. Carlo Rovelli quotes extensively from 1st Century Indian philosopher Nagarjuna, in ‘Helgoland’, his philosophical treatise on the interpretation of quantum theory.

Some scientists, working at the frontiers of knowledge, are discovering what philosophers and religious people intuited centuries ago.
In short, everything is connected; object, observer, and act of observation appear inextricably linked. No description of any system can be complete without a description of the entire context, and this context may include a description of the consciousness of the observer. And so on.

“Who picks a flower on earth, moves the farthest star.”
- Paul Dirac

I recommend “Cosmological Koans” by Anthony Aguirre, for an exploration of how Buddhist thought may be used to shed light on conundrums arising from theoretical physics.
 
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Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
This is quite a well trodden path and an interesting one, as I’m sure you’re aware. Erwin Schrodinger and Robert Oppenheimer both had an interest in Vedic literature some of the principles of which they saw reflections of in quantum theory. David Bohm kept up a long correspondence with spiritual guru Jay Krishnamurti. Carlo Rovelli quotes extensively from 1st Century Indian philosopher Nagarjuna, in ‘Helgoland’, his philosophical treatise on the interpretation of quantum theory.

Some scientists, working at the frontiers of knowledge, are discovering what philosophers and religious people intuited centuries ago.
In short, everything is connected; object, observer, and act of observation appear inextricably linked. No description of any system can be complete without a description of the entire context, and this context may include a description of the consciousness of the observer. And so on.

“Who picks a flower on earth, moves the farthest star.”
- Paul Dirac

I recommend “Cosmological Koans” by Anthony Aguirre, for an exploration of how Buddhist thought may be used to shed light on conundrums arising from theoretical physics.
Yes, J Krishnamurti was my entry into the Vedic tradition also, I read all his books. I have downloaded Cosmological Koans and will have a look, thank you Restless Soul.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
paarsurrey said:
Can't we say, therefore, that as human knowledges has increased, human ignorance has also increased almost proportionately, please, right??
Yes, but that is prophesy that a Satanic influence would emerge that would have many people increase their interest in materiality, at the expense of their spirituality, from Theism to Atheism. Not that science is intrinsically evil, but in the hands of Atheists, it can be badly misused.
Yes, does one mean appearance of the Anti-Christ or sinister one-eyed ( who can see only material) Dajjal/Deceiver , right, please?

Regards
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
paarsurrey said:
Can't we say, therefore, that as human knowledges has increased, human ignorance has also increased almost proportionately, please, right??

Yes, does one mean appearance of the Anti-Christ or sinister one-eyed ( who can see only material) Dajjal/Deceiver , right, please?

Regards
My understanding is that both are present in these end times, Anti-Christ emerges last.
 
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