Understanding the holy scriptures is impossible unless God gives you the interpretation

[Subduction Zone]

Objective morality, from the bible?
Easy peasy. Whatever "god" does is defined as
Objective Morality.
Just dont you be going with the
idea you are ok following the example.

And the problem with is that it is not "objective". It is subject to change when God changes his mind. Kill your enemies? Rape the women? Sure it is okay because God says it is okay. Or are Christians claiming that we cannot do that any longer?

 

[Audie]

But at least there is a fair amount of physical evidence that supports that claim. There was a large local flood at that time that could have led to the Ark myth. I am sure that you have seen the article that I have linked on it. Though I could do so again. The Flood is like a fish story. It starts with a fair sized sunfish and grows into a a huge muskellunge. Oops, there is my Minnesota upbringing coming out.

Thatvwould make it a
"George Washington hatchet" story.

( here is his hatchet!! The head has been replaced,
and this is the tenth handle. Otherwise original)

In the event even for that it is a could-have.

 

[Audie]

And the problem with is that it is not "objective". It is subject to change when God changes his mind. Kill your enemies? Rape the women? Sure it is okay because God says it is okay. Or are Christians claiming that we cannot do that any longer?

Sorry ah god sets the rules for objectivity not you.

 

[3rdAngel]

There you go using a phrase that you do not understand. Your attempt to create a false a false narrative an abuse context was refuted. You may not have understood. That was why I tried to simplify it for you. And that was when you began to run away. In case you do not understand not answering reasonable questions is running away. That implies that you know that you are wrong.

Well that is not true my friend. There was no false narrative. I simply posted the scripture context you left out showing why you are in error in post # 688 linked for all to see. You ignoring this fact does not make the scriptures that disagree with you disappear

 

[Audie]

Its pretty well documented.

So are Joseph Smith's gold books.
Better, ee have copies and sworn witnesses.

Stating your opinion as fact is not that far
removrd from Hoc's ice that dont flote.

 

[Milton Platt]

There are two things Jesus stated, that might answer your question:
1) At Luke 10:21, Jesus said his Father ‘reveals’ accurate interpretation, right? So do you think, maybe, to get these accurate revelations, a group would have to be obedient to God’s requirements as outlined for Christians, ie., followers of His Son?
For example, how does God view fornication? 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Colossians 3:5-6, etc., tell us. (That’s really a big one today, considering the world we live in!) If a group allows such behavior among its members....do you think it will receive enlightenment? Hardly!

And then, there’s this...
2) John 13:34-35; it would identify Jesus’ followers. Does it stipulate, “Unless there’s a war”? Nope. It’s during the times of war, where such love would really ID Jesus’ followers! This resulting neutrality would certainly instigate the world’s hatred.

John 15:17-19

So it is not individuals, it has to be a group. Interesting. A single person within a group could not know the correct interpretation because the rest of the group falls short? Doesn't seem fair. But it's your god.

Doesn't scripture say that all fall short? Does anyone perfectly follow all of the commandments and rules? Nope. So, no true Scotsman, or appeal to purity fallacy. You have to do better than that.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Well that is not true my friend. There was no false narrative. I simply posted the scripture context you left out showing why you are in error in post # 688 linked for all to see. You ignoring this fact does not make the scriptures that disagree with you disappear

Yes, there was. You were pretending that others were ignoring the moral argument of Paul. That was not the case. That is why your argument was mostly fluff. It only focused on beliefs of Paul that no one was disputing. And your attempt to claim "context" did nothing to show that the verse I cited went above and beyond that. You could not deal with that verse since it refuted your claim. You could only cry "context" and quote verses that did not change its meaning as used in our debate.

 

[3rdAngel]

Yes, there was. You were pretending that others were ignoring the moral argument of Paul. That was not the case. That is why your argument was mostly fluff. It only focused on beliefs of Paul that no one was disputing. And your attempt to claim "context" did nothing to show that the verse I cited went above and beyond that. You could not deal with that verse since it refuted your claim. You could only cry "context" and quote verses that did not change its meaning as used in our debate.

Nonsense my friend. Please be honest and address post # 688 linked, which disagrees with you and shows from the scriptures why your claims in a single cherry picked scripture is in error for ignoring scripture context. If you cannot why make claims that are not true? You will not address the linked post given for all to see because you know that it shows you are in error. You are free to believe as you wish however. Let me know when you want to have an honest discussion until then we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Nonsense my friend. Please be honest and address post # 688 linked, which disagrees with you and shows from the scriptures why your claims in a single cherry picked scripture is in error for ignoring scripture context. If you cannot why make claims that are not true? You will not address the linked post given for all to see because you know that it shows you are in error. You are free to believe as you wish however. Let me know when you want to have an honest discussion until then we will have to agree to disagree.

It has been addressed. It has been thoroughly spanked. At best you could not understand the refutation. Context cannot save you. In fact context is your enemy. Forget your false narrative. In the context of that passage the verse I cited went above and beyond the idea that fornication is a sin and you could not deal with it.

 

[Milton Platt]

So most of the billions of people are automatically screwed? Some god you have.

 

[3rdAngel]

It has been addressed. It has been thoroughly spanked. At best you could not understand the refutation. Context cannot save you. In fact context is your enemy. Forget your false narrative. In the context of that passage the verse I cited went above and beyond the idea that fornication is a sin and you could not deal with it.

Well that is not true and your not being honest. Please post the link were you have addressed post # 688 linked which shows why you are in error by providing the context you left out. Now if you cannot why are you not being honest and making things up that are not true? - Shameful.

 

[oldbadger]

Ok. So I understand where you are coming from better now.

There are many reasons why people bring this up.

Personally, the times I mostly bring the child abuse issue up is when JWs criticize other religions, when people ask me why I left and wont return or i am in a discussion about indoctrination. The reason why I brought this up on this thread was in response to a JWs criticism of other religions, saying that they were from Satan, as if their religion is the best in the world, and another person disbuted that. They also say that their interpretations are correct so i point out interpretations which are problematic.

So, if a JW accepts what actually goes on in their organisation, makes known that they have internal problems and doesnt criticise other religions for the sake of making their own organisation look great, then I will hardly ever bring these points up.

I do the same with other religions and groups which have problems. I call out catholics and muslims as well and I call people out when they misrepresent JW doctrine or say that JWs are evil.

OK. Fair enough.
I do find that many Christian Creeds point to all the other churches and make nasty statements about them. Several months ago I visited a Salvation Army centre by invitation, to have some soup and a chat. n officer stared hard at me for a time (across the table) and then asked 'Why have you come here?'. I said that I was invited. 'Who invited you?' I said that I had read a sign outside which read 'Come in for a snack and a chat'. This interrogation continued for a time and eventually I explained that I sometimes visited Christian centres and churches to meet, greet and chat with folks. The officer then asked 'Where else have you visited?' I told her that my last visit had been to a Christian Spiritualist group.
That was it! She exploded! In a most aggressive German accent she bellowed, 'Zey are not ze Christians! Zey are Satanists! ......' and then stampeded (orally) in to a rant about Halloween (it was late October) and how 'ze little children' are forced to take part in such evil devil worship.

In all my years I had respected the work of the Sally Army, and one poor diplomat in its ranks cannot change my mind about it, but it would have been so easy to treat the whole church as having the face of that fanatic.
---------------------------------------
The JWs around here are mostly honest self-employed tradespeople. They can thus build their own working weeks to fit in with their evangelizing and they are more useful at building new Kingdom Halls having a wide range of skills.

I know that they think I and all around are outside their agreement with their God, and I know that their honesty is not for me but in service to their God. But in a World where all I have found in parts of every corner and profession is corrupt greed and dishonesty they are a breath of fresh air.

But I cannot be one........ it would be pointless for a Deist to join.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Well that is not true and your not being honest. Please post the link were you have addressed post # 688 linked which shows why you are in error by providing the context you left out. Now if you cannot why are you not being honest and making things up that are not true? - Shameful.

One cannot be rude and dishonest and make demands.

 

[3rdAngel]

One cannot be rude and dishonest and make demands.

Then my advice is do not do it. Let's talk more when you want to have an honest discussion. No link? I did not think so. Thanks for proving my point.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Then my advice is do not do it.

I am not the one that has been rude and dishonest here.

Try again.

 

[3rdAngel]

I am not the one that has been rude and dishonest here.
Try again.

Deep down inside I suspect you know your not being truthful in your claims and the things you say here. Anyhow best I leave you with the last say. Seems you need to more than I do. Let's talk more when you want to have an honest discussion. I wish you only the best my friend, and this is the only reason I am trying to help you

 

[Subduction Zone]

Deep down inside I suspect you know your not being truthful in your claims and the things you say here. Anyhow best I leave you with the last say. Seems you need to more than I do. Let's talk more when you want to have an honest discussion

LMFAO! Oh my, you are funny.

And if you want to have an honest discussion you need to be honest. Remember how many times you ran away from the same question? That is not being honest.

 

[3rdAngel]

LMFAO! Oh my, you are funny. And if you want to have an honest discussion you need to be honest. Remember how many times you ran away from the same question? That is not being honest.

I am not the one running away from anything. Your question is strawman and not relevant to what we are discussing. Your the one making untruthful claims not me in relation to addressing post # 688 linked. Why make untruthful claims you cannot prove? That is simply being dishonest IMO

 

[Samael_Khan]

OK. Fair enough.
I do find that many Christian Creeds point to all the other churches and make nasty statements about them. Several months ago I visited a Salvation Army centre by invitation, to have some soup and a chat. n officer stared hard at me for a time (across the table) and then asked 'Why have you come here?'. I said that I was invited. 'Who invited you?' I said that I had read a sign outside which read 'Come in for a snack and a chat'. This interrogation continued for a time and eventually I explained that I sometimes visited Christian centres and churches to meet, greet and chat with folks. The officer then asked 'Where else have you visited?' I told her that my last visit had been to a Christian Spiritualist group.
That was it! She exploded! In a most aggressive German accent she bellowed, 'Zey are not ze Christians! Zey are Satanists! ......' and then stampeded (orally) in to a rant about Halloween (it was late October) and how 'ze little children' are forced to take part in such evil devil worship.

In all my years I had respected the work of the Sally Army, and one poor diplomat in its ranks cannot change my mind about it, but it would have been so easy to treat the whole church as having the face of that fanatic.

Now that is the mentality that I cannot stand. I think it is dangerous. I have encountered so many people like that from so many different faiths. I doubt an experience like that would ever happen at a Kingdom Hall to a new comer.
---------------------------------------

The JWs around here are mostly honest self-employed tradespeople. They can thus build their own working weeks to fit in with their evangelizing and they are more useful at building new Kingdom Halls having a wide range of skills.

I know that they think I and all around are outside their agreement with their God, and I know that their honesty is not for me but in service to their God. But in a World where all I have found in parts of every corner and profession is corrupt greed and dishonesty they are a breath of fresh air.

But I cannot be one........ it would be pointless for a Deist to join.

I agree. I would say that they place their religion in too good a light, and they justify beliefs which I think are dangerous (like their view on higher education and blood transfusions) without accepting the onvious consequences but that is their viewpoint. It happens with all religious people, such as Christians denying slavery being supported in the bible. It isnt that they are lying. They genuinely believe what they say.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I am not the one running away from anything. Your the one making untruthful claims not me in relation to addressing post # 688 linked. Why make untruthful claims you cannot prove? That is simply being dishonest IMO

Nope, that is a false claim on your part. Your inability to understand how you failed is not my problem. Everyone else can see your repeated failures, well except for the Kool-Aid drinkers.

If you do not understand a point you need to ask questions. If I ask you a question you need to answer. I doubt if you can do that.