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Understanding the holy scriptures is impossible unless God gives you the interpretation

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
So I have been born again and have been given the Holy Spirit -- and you have not. I was healed by Jesus Christ; there was no "belief" involved.

Obviously you cannot understand this, but that is to be expected.
You believe that you have been born again and have been given the Holy Spirit.
You believe you were healed by Jesus Christ; and that there was no "belief" involved.

Obviously you cannot understand this, but that is to be expected.
 

Elihoenai

Well-Known Member
I have no religion, which to you is a religion.
From your perspective it's not Religion because of what you have been taught Religion to mean. Practitioners of Natural Religion Believe that Nature is the Highest Form of Existence and Live/Die their life as such.








Back atcha. Your life sounds like conscious death to me.
Yes it would do because we are at Total Opposite ends of the Spectrum that Reveals the Inverse. I've never been remotely Committed to Life/Death in the Flesh, otherwise I would have Fornicated, Committed Adultery and taken Hard Drugs. Never Fornicated, Committed Adultery or taken Hard Drugs in my entire life. I got involved in Christendom when I was about twenty, although have never been a member of any Denominational or Non-Denominational Church.









As I've said, I'm comfortable without religion. And I'm not looking for life advice any more than you are. I worked that out decades ago. What advice do you think you could give me to improve my life?
To improve your life, from your Perspective is Total Devotion to the path you are on Being Whole Hearted. Total Devotion in your life is Marquis de Sade, Jacob Frank and Aleister Crowley. I don't know if your at the level of Commitment as these Practitioners.










Bad news: your end will be death anyway. What matters is what happens until then. While you've been contemplating your navel in a cave in the hills, I've been about the world, visited concert halls and museums, visited restaurants, loved, and laughed - what you describe as getting drunk at parties and taking drugs, so naturally, you see that as decadence. That's unfortunate for you.
Christian Gnostics Become Yeshua/Jesus and are not waiting for Yeshua/Jesus to return in the so-called Second Coming. In Christendom they have been waiting for over 2000 years for Yeshua/Jesus to return.

Continue to Fully Embrace that Path you are on. I'm on the Total Opposite Inverse Path Being Christian Ascetic Monk. Not all Christian Ascetic Monks live in a Secluded Cave. Some live among the Community. I live in London England and I work for a living in Applied Science. In the World, although Not of the World.


Asceticism

Asceticism[a] is a lifestyle characterized by abstinence from sensual pleasures, often for the purpose of pursuing spiritual goals.[3] Ascetics may withdraw from the world for their practices or continue to be part of their society, but typically adopt a frugal lifestyle, characterised by the renunciation of material possessions and physical pleasures, and also spend time fasting while concentrating on the practice of religion or reflection upon spiritual matters,[4] which is thought by some to allow the practitioner's core of consciousness to expand and connect with the infinite universal consciousness.[5] Some individuals have also attempted an ascetic lifestyle to free themselves from addictions to things such as alcohol, tobacco, drugs, entertainment, sex, food, etc.








I'm almost seventy now, and I'm happy with my life. Yet here you are telling me that I should have lived it differently. You're warning me that no good can from this way of living when nothing but good has already come from it for decades now.
Almost every person on the planet is Content with the Natural Life. On a Few Really Believe in the Spiritual Working to Transcend the Natural.
 
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Quester

Member
So I have been born again and have been given the Holy Spirit -- and you have not. I was healed by Jesus Christ; there was no "belief" involved.

Obviously you cannot understand this, but that is to be expected.

Again, read my signature below -- carefully this time. I doubt you will understand, but who knows?
Actually, I went through all that beginning in '73. It was the tripping over textual flaws and historical information as well as getting no "answers" as to why this was from God that rerouted my journey.
 

Elihoenai

Well-Known Member
That verse is not a prohibition om meat-eating.

FYI, the Baha'i Faith is far ahead of Christianity. Our teachings say that the food of the future will be fruits and grains.

But we are fortunate to have principles to guide us in our choices while we wait for science to catch up. So, what is the food of the future? Abdu'l-Baha's response to this burning question follows: Fruit and grains.

The Food of the Future | Baha'i Blog
Christian Gnosticism is Superior to Baha'i Faith. In Christian Gnosticism you are Not allowed to Eat any Meat or Foods Derived from Animals.







The reason for me to become a Vegetarian or a Vegan is because I love animals, NOT so I could feel Superior to other people.
It is against my beliefs to judge other people and woe betide me if I feel superior to others.

Matthew 7:3-5 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

26: O SON OF BEING! How couldst thou forget thine own faults and busy thyself with the faults of others? Whoso doeth this is accursed of Me.

27: O SON OF MAN! Breathe not the sins of others so long as thou art thyself a sinner. Shouldst thou transgress this command, accursed wouldst thou be, and to this I bear witness.
The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 10
Christian Gnosticism is Superior to all other Religions. Christian Gnosticism is Superior to the Bahai' Faith because Elohim/God has given us the Original teachings of Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ.









Eating is Carnal but so what? We have to eat to live.
Vegetarianism would be Self-Denial for me because I Want to eat meat, but I do not need to deny myself of everything in this world just so I can say I practice Self-Denial.

I do not deny that I have some attachment to food, but so what? I do not need to be completely detached form everything pleasurable in this world. Should I not enjoy nature and animals?
You have Revealed the Baháʼí Faith is Natural Religion. In Christian Gnosticism Enjoying the Natural is Rejecting the Spiritual. The 7.9 Billion enjoy the natural, so you Baháʼís are no different from any other person on the Planet. Only a Select Few Transcend the Natural for the Spiritual.









What is your point about these? Is your point that nobody should drink coffee? Do you know that there are health benefits from drinking coffee?

Baha'is are discouraged from using tobacco, and it is against Baha'is Laws to drink alcohol or take recreational drugs (drugs that are not prescribed by a doctor.)
Therefore, now you are aware that you are taking Drugs. Coffee is a Recreational Drug. In Christian Gnosticism we are Not Allowed to take any Pharmaceutical Drugs or Recreational Drugs. Elohim/God is our Spiritual Doctor that keeps us Healthy.

It's good that you are against Alcohol and Smoking.






No, there is no Baha'i Law that prohibits the use of birth control. What would be the alternative? Abstinence is not realistic so the alternative would be bringing children into the world, that couples cannot care for and ultimately, overpopulation.

You are not going to stop people from having sex. If you cannot even stop people from having sex outside of wedlock how do you think you will ever stop people from having sex IN wedlock?.
Our teaching is Only for a Select Few. In Christian Gnosticism you cannot use Birth Control and Sex is Only for Procreation in a Marriage. In Baha'i Law you allow Recreational Sex in a Marriage.










Yes, sex in Marriage that is not for Procreation is for bodily pleasure. People like to say that sex in marriage is 'needed' for bonding and it is not for pleasure, but that is a lie they tell themselves because there are happily married couples who do not have sex. The least people can do is admit the truth: They are having sex for pleasure.
The Body wants so Satisfy itself as this is Natural.











I became a member of the Baha'i Faith when I was 17 years old and I did not get married until I was 32 years old. I had plenty of opportunities but I never had sex before I became a Baha'i or after, until I got married, and I have never had sex with any man other than my late husband, nor had he ever had sex with any other woman, and he was 42 years old when we got married. Obviously we are exceptions to the way most people live.
2 Timothy 3:12

12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

That's correct, you are an exception. I live surrounded by Totally Devoted Satanists and happy to say I get Persecuted for living Totally Differently to everybody else.











I wish I could find a Baha'i man to marry but there is no way to find one even if they are out there somewhere. And even if I did find a Baha'i man to marry he would probably want sex. I am not completely averse to the idea of having sex in marriage, yet it is not something I desire for myself. However, I would like a companion, someone to share life with who has the same values as I have.

Let's face reality. Most of the sex that people engage is is Recreational Sex because people like to experience physical pleasure. Been there, done that, so I know from experience. I thank God that I was able to escape from that prison, the prison of self. I am not close to God, but I want to be, so I don't want anything that could intervene between myself and God.

“Know ye that by “the world” is meant your unawareness of Him Who is your Maker, and your absorption in aught else but Him. The “life to come,” on the other hand, signifieth the things that give you a safe approach to God, the All-Glorious, the Incomparable. Whatsoever deterreth you, in this Day, from loving God is nothing but the world. Flee it, that ye may be numbered with the blest. Should a man wish to adorn himself with the ornaments of the earth, to wear its apparels, or partake of the benefits it can bestow, no harm can befall him, if he alloweth nothing whatever to intervene between him and God, for God hath ordained every good thing, whether created in the heavens or in the earth, for such of His servants as truly believe in Him. Eat ye, O people, of the good things which God hath allowed you, and deprive not yourselves from His wondrous bounties. Render thanks and praise unto Him, and be of them that are truly thankful.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 275-276
This Reveals that the Baha'i Faith is not Strict Enough allowing Recreational Sex in a Marriage. Given that Baha'i man would expect Recreation Sex it shows that your Religion is Natural. Your Religion is Revealed by the Practitioners that it produces. Having Recreational Sex maintains Separation from Elohim/God because it Denies the Spiritual.

It's Good that you are Striving to get close to Elohim/God. I'm on the Spiritual Journey to Become Unified with Elohim/God.
 

Quester

Member
So I have been born again and have been given the Holy Spirit -- and you have not. I was healed by Jesus Christ; there was no "belief" involved.

Obviously you cannot understand this, but that is to be expected.

Again, read my signature below -- carefully this time. I doubt you will understand, but who knows?
Like I said above:
I understand what a "belief system" is. Since writing began (which is the clearest picture) people have been expected to "believe" what they were told by the religious elite ... and Christianity is no different. Look at your signature ... some people have spirit and some don't? This isn't true (and "spirit" is an incorrect approach) but by saying it, it allows the writer to create a picture that must be accepted as is by the reader / listener AKA the "believer" - and of course believers "have the mind of Christ." It's "doctrine" ... like any religion.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It sounds like you are around 80 years old
I'm a few month shy of 70 yo.
a guy who was brought up under the rule of law and safety set up in a Christianized Western country, probably America, gaging on your grammar, under the protection of their laws, based on the 10 commandments
I was raised in America, which government and laws are not based in the Ten Commandments. There are no laws about worshiping god or idols, none about honoring parents, none about coveting or adultery, and no law about observing a weekly day of rest, and most lying is legal. There are, however, laws against stealing and many kinds of killing, but the country isn't based on them and they don't appear in its constitution.
you use your relative wealth to prey on the younger poor woman of a country such as the Philippines
That's a good one. You're the typical zealous Abrahamist who has been taught to see atheistic humanists as unprincipled. I'm a happily married man of 33 years, and even if she allowed me other lovers, I wouldn't be interested.
I can see why you want to use your gaged conscience for making your choices.
I'm wondering if you meant gagged or gauged. Neither makes much sense there. But yes, I rely on my conscience for moral direction. Here's the thing: it rewards me when I meet my own standards, punishes me when I don't, and has been a reliable guide to date helping me to steer clear of contention and regret, so I have zero reason to defy it.
It is best to condemn the God who judges the morally corrupt
Atheists don't actually do that. We just ignore the people trying to tell us what to do using the literary device of an unseen god who allegedly commands and threatens us from outside of the universe. It's best not to conform to those rules. They weren't chosen because they're good for you. They were chosen because they induce submission and obedience in those that believe them.
along with the noise and everything being so unorganized, that you will crack, and with thoughts of going home, and have no home to go back too.
There's more of your Abrahamic pessimism. Look at what you're imagining here. Mexico is and has been my home for fifteen years, and I have no desire to return to the States even for a visit.
I told him to watch some Dr. Peterson pod cast. It seemed to help him a little. You might try it.
I'm not looking for life advice. I recognize that name. The little I've heard from him is unappealing to me. Too conservative, too angry, and too preachy.
From your perspective it's not Religion because of what you have been taught Religion to mean.
I wasn't taught what religion is. My definition is my own and no doubt differs from yours. I don't consider a naturalistic worldview like atheistic humanism a religion. It has no supernaturalism, no gods, no rituals, and no holy books.
Practitioners of Natural Religion Believe that Nature is the Highest Form of Existence and Live/Die their life as such.
I believe that nature may be the only form of existence, that, that all that exists does so naturally and is thus a part of nature.
Almost every person on the planet is Content with the Natural Life.
Surveys tell us that most people believe in some form of supernaturalism.
On a Few Really Believe in the Spiritual Working to Transcend the Natural.
And what is their reward for holding such a belief? Dozens of RF posters have made claims of seeing further and arriving at spiritual truths and great insights, but I'm done asking them for examples. They have none, just the claim. It seems that having that belief satisfies some need that's foreign to me, maybe a need for there being magic in the world that I also don't seem to have.

What has whatever it is that you are doing different from people like me taught you and how have those ideas served you? Please be specific. Generalizations wouldn't dispel my current opinion about all of this being just words without substance.
 

jimb

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Like I said above:
I understand what a "belief system" is. Since writing began (which is the clearest picture) people have been expected to "believe" what they were told by the religious elite ... and Christianity is no different. Look at your signature ... some people have spirit and some don't? This isn't true (and "spirit" is an incorrect approach) but by saying it, it allows the writer to create a picture that must be accepted as is by the reader / listener AKA the "believer" - and of course believers "have the mind of Christ." It's "doctrine" ... like any religion.
So are you a Christian or not? Have you received the Holy Spirit or do you understand doctrine mentally? The latter is a "belief system", the former is not.

I was not told by any religious elite; God intervened directly in my life (when I was an atheist). And yes, some people have the Holy Spirit and many do not. I really don't care if you believe me, as I know the truth of what has happened to me and others.

Doctrine is instruction from an authoritative source, especially in spiritual matters. Receiving the Holy Spirit is entirely different; it is a direct gift from God. Some people have been given the Holy Spirit and many have not.

If you ever receive the Holy Spirit directly from God then you will understand what that means.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
God intervened directly in my life (when I was an atheist). And yes, some people have the Holy Spirit and many do not. I really don't care if you believe me, as I know the truth of what has happened to me and others.
It's good that you don't care if you're believed, because I don't believe you. I don't think you're knowingly lying, but I do think that you've misinterpreted your experiences. Just because you believe something doesn't make it truth. Truth has other qualities. An idea must be demonstrably (empirically) correct to deserve to be called correct or truth or knowledge.
If you ever receive the Holy Spirit directly from God then you will understand what that means.
I understand exactly what happened to you. I also believe that you don't. Here's my story and why I say and believe what I do as well as why I am so emphatically opposed to belief by faith. It led to my making the biggest mistake of my life.
 

Quester

Member
So are you a Christian or not? Have you received the Holy Spirit or do you understand doctrine mentally? The latter is a "belief system", the former is not.

I was not told by any religious elite; God intervened directly in my life (when I was an atheist). And yes, some people have the Holy Spirit and many do not. I really don't care if you believe me, as I know the truth of what has happened to me and others.

Doctrine is instruction from an authoritative source, especially in spiritual matters. Receiving the Holy Spirit is entirely different; it is a direct gift from God. Some people have been given the Holy Spirit and many have not.

If you ever receive the Holy Spirit directly from God then you will understand what that means.
Experiences of this sort (what people call spiritual experiences) began when I was five ... and I was told "the Catholic Church is wrong." 18 years later the research into what this all meant began. I was not given ANY data, I had to figure this out myself. Why? There is a big difference between classical teaching and constructivism ... classical teaching hands you all the answers (and at this point, if your experience is "spiritual" you can easily be lied to). The constructivist methodology make YOU do all the work and figure it all out yourself, piece by piece, for as long as it takes.

The bottom line question would be ... did what I get when I was 5 mean the Catholic Church itself was wrong? Or, was "the Church" all I knew about Christianity back then, and this was going into the doctrine of the religion itself? What I found simply showed that the religion itself was wrong. Historically, the Messiah was a rewrite of the Zoroastrian Saoshyant, and the end times info was a rewrite too. This picture changes from religion to religion, and is based in something we once knew, that, over the millennia, we have lost.

It's very easy to deceive someone via this "spiritual" methodology. They instantly believe they have something special, they never try to verify anything, and are lost is a sea of confusion. Like a particular "line" I got years ago: "People all follow dead end roads, and never realize they are indeed dead ends."

So to answer your question, am I a Christian? I was, but I learned something activating my brain 50 years ago. Christianity is wrong ... and, unless you actually try to figure this all out, you'll never get it.
 

jimb

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Like I said above:
I understand what a "belief system" is. Since writing began (which is the clearest picture) people have been expected to "believe" what they were told by the religious elite ... and Christianity is no different. Look at your signature ... some people have spirit and some don't? This isn't true (and "spirit" is an incorrect approach) but by saying it, it allows the writer to create a picture that must be accepted as is by the reader / listener AKA the "believer" - and of course believers "have the mind of Christ." It's "doctrine" ... like any religion.
So you know how to cut & paste. Great!
 

jimb

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Experiences of this sort (what people call spiritual experiences) began when I was five ... and I was told "the Catholic Church is wrong." 18 years later the research into what this all meant began. I was not given ANY data, I had to figure this out myself. Why? There is a big difference between classical teaching and constructivism ... classical teaching hands you all the answers (and at this point, if your experience is "spiritual" you can easily be lied to). The constructivist methodology make YOU do all the work and figure it all out yourself, piece by piece, for as long as it takes.

The bottom line question would be ... did what I get when I was 5 mean the Catholic Church itself was wrong? Or, was "the Church" all I knew about Christianity back then, and this was going into the doctrine of the religion itself? What I found simply showed that the religion itself was wrong. Historically, the Messiah was a rewrite of the Zoroastrian Saoshyant, and the end times info was a rewrite too. This picture changes from religion to religion, and is based in something we once knew, that, over the millennia, we have lost.

It's very easy to deceive someone via this "spiritual" methodology. They instantly believe they have something special, they never try to verify anything, and are lost is a sea of confusion. Like a particular "line" I got years ago: "People all follow dead end roads, and never realize they are indeed dead ends."

So to answer your question, am I a Christian? I was, but I learned something activating my brain 50 years ago. Christianity is wrong ... and, unless you actually try to figure this all out, you'll never get it.
Do you seriously expect me (and others) to accept your baseless opinion that Christianity is wrong? I have personally "figured it all out", even though your statement implies intellectual activity instead of spiritual "knowledge". If you don't have faith and/or believe Christian doctrine, that is your loss.
 

Quester

Member
Do you seriously expect me (and others) to accept your baseless opinion that Christianity is wrong? I have personally "figured it all out", even though your statement implies intellectual activity instead of spiritual "knowledge". If you don't have faith and/or believe Christian doctrine, that is your loss.
My approach is not "baseless." And since you have "figured it all out" perhaps you would like to give a counter explanation regarding all the history involved and how it's wrong, and the fact that this "return and end" according to what's written in the text, was supposed to happen back in their day - and - it never did.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Do you seriously expect me (and others) to accept your baseless opinion that Christianity is wrong?
I accept his conclusion since it's mine as well (and hardly baseless), and it's perfectly OK that you disagree.
spiritual "knowledge"
No such thing. All you have are unfalsifiable guesses. I suppose that's why you put knowledge in scare quotes.
If you don't have faith and/or believe Christian doctrine, that is your loss.
You have nothing to show for the choices you've made except for the hope of going to heaven, which you can have by faith without bothering with Christianity or praying or Bibles or church Sundays or tithing. Here watch: "I declare that I'm going to heaven." It seems the loss is yours.
 

jimb

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
My approach is not "baseless." And since you have "figured it all out" perhaps you would like to give a counter explanation regarding all the history involved and how it's wrong, and the fact that this "return and end" according to what's written in the text, was supposed to happen back in their day - and - it never did.
I have no idea what you're talking about. What is your explanation for all the history involved and how it's wrong? Where is "return and end" written in the text? And what was "supposed to happen back in their day - and - it never did"?

Again, your previous statement implies intellectual activity instead of spiritual "knowledge", so please explain that in addition to the above.

I have no need to explain anything beyond what my "signature" says.
 

Quester

Member
I have no idea what you're talking about. What is your explanation for all the history involved and how it's wrong? Where is "return and end" written in the text? And what was "supposed to happen back in their day - and - it never did"?

Again, your previous statement implies intellectual activity instead of spiritual "knowledge", so please explain that in addition to the above.

I have no need to explain anything beyond what my "signature" says.
You have no need because you can't ... this is the usual approach from those who are so confused and lack so much data they don't know what to say. And as far as what was allegedly supposed to happen (Where is "return and end" written in the text?):
1 Cor 15
21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the first-fruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
I was raised in America, which government and laws are not based in the Ten Commandments. There are no laws about worshiping god or idols, none about honoring parents, none about coveting or adultery, and no law about observing a weekly day of rest, and most lying is legal. There are, however, laws against stealing and many kinds of killing, but the country isn't based on them and they don't appear in its constitution.
What I said was that the imagery of the ten commandments are on the Supreme Court Building. The writers of the Constitution of the U.S. were mostly Christians, many born of parents fleeing Europe to have free expression of their religion, and free choice on how to worship God. You did well in the shadow of the laws they produced. America is now sliding away from those precepts, into the unfettered Progressive Marxist Atheistic ideals. As for the American dollars you use, they read "In God We Trust". That the retirement money you use is borrowed against the wages of the unborn, which you compromise more, by supporting the killing additional numbers of unborn, to increase the burden by way of your use of unfunded social security. The 10 commandments, that say you should not steal, lie, murder, or covet your neighbors' goods, is the standards of U.S. law. Now that the Progressives are in power, there is little curb on theft, murder, or lying, and the Progressive cities portray those values. The ultimate law is to do to others as you would have them to do you. You are permitting the killing of the unborn. Now, when Trump gets elected, and the Cartels are cut off from their billions in revenue due to their human trade, the cartels probably can find out where you live, and drop in for a loan on your part. If you don't make them happy, they may make you sad. That would be called Karma.
The Declaration of Independence says: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
You have chosen to deny unborn babies the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, when the U.S. fathers, said they were endowed by the Creator for these things. How do you think Karma works in that case? Is there going to be a time when you will have your life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness taken away, or is your "conscience" going to protect you, such as save you from such a fate. As for your social security, when it goes dry, the current law states that the payouts will have to be reduced approximately 38%. If you have a California or Illinois retirement account, well, those accounts are already sucking on fumes. You may find God and pray to him that you don't live much longer, for the credit rating of dead babies is zero, and you will be downstream without a paddle. I think the Mexicans are starting to get tired of the Americans coming to Mexico and raising inflation on everything. I wonder how that will play out.
 

jimb

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
You have no need because you can't ... this is the usual approach from those who are so confused and lack so much data they don't know what to say. And as far as what was allegedly supposed to happen (Where is "return and end" written in the text?):
1 Cor 15
21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the first-fruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
a) A personal insult shows who you really are. **mod edit**

b) "return" isn't in that section, wise guy.
 
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jimb

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
S
Stereotypical dodge.
Stereotypical nasty comment. Is that where your "faith" leads you? (The answer is obvious)

I have better things to do than read your garbage. You are now on "ignore". Go insult somebody else.
 
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