United Nations to ban religion?

[Laika]

I've posted this in other places and must admit it has found the strongest legs here.
Why I think it's relevant is revealed by the most cursory examination of religious interference in world affairs,

Ask yourself:
When political and commercial interests have need to assert their interests through warfare, to whom do they look to recruit cannon fodder? . . . .
Who else but the clergymen found within their bedsheets?

Then consider the passages in Revelation, chapters 17 and 18 which clearly indicate a religious entity devoured by a political entity having reached the limits of endurance - a religious entity having maintained its power by means of the lie, the singular roadblock to world peace.

World history contains the voluminous indictment. It can be only a short time until conviction and sentence.

Thats interesting. Do you think the response here is a reflection of something about the forum? Is it just we're more prone to controversy due to the diversity of beliefs? Or something else?

 

[neologist]

And then recall how that beast is destroyed in chapter 19 because it was an evil that God simply used to destroy another evil.

But, of course.
The executioner shares in the guilt and deserves the same consequence.

 

[neologist]

Thats interesting. Do you think the response here is a reflection of something about the forum? Is it just we're more prone to controversy due to the diversity of beliefs? Or something else?

I have been a member of a more general forum for several years.

As expected, this forum is less focused on secular issues.

It will be interesting to see if there is any consensus.

 

[Laika]

I have been a member of a more general forum for several years.

As expected, this forum is less focused on secular issues.

It will be interesting to see if there is any consensus.

Thanks. I was just curious. Speaking in terms of the whole forum, the overwhelming majority of members hold libertarian left political views. But aside from that the religious diversity works against consensus.

Political Compass Results

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

And there are valid reasons to believe in God and read your Bible.

I'd love to hear them one day.

 

[dianaiad]

Oh yeah, I remember that nonsense too. And "To Kill a Mockingbird" was on the PC hit list.
The local NAACP lost a lot of my support when they successfully quashed a HS production. And I was on the board at the time.
Tom

What I am seeing here is a (very natural) tendency to see what we want to see. I think that there is a formal name for this, but I've heard it called the 'Volkswagon syndrome." You know how it goes...you buy a new Volkswagon and the first time you drive it...suddenly all you see on the road are Volkswagons?

What I see in this thread are Christians and other theists claiming that it's the atheists/secularists/overly PC who are demanding the censorship of books, while the atheists/secularists/overly PC folks are claiming that it's the theists who are the culprits. The problem is, of course, that both groups are correct. EVERYBODY wants to get rid of opposing viewpoints, because of course opposing viewpoints are uncomfortable, irritating and bothersome.

Tough.

The US Constitution (and most other western nations, actually) have encoded freedom of speech into their laws; not to protect those who agree with us, but to protect the rights of those who don't. It's not MY freedom to believe as I wish that is at issue here, but YOURS; your freedom to disagree with me, and to do so in places and in a manner that I might well be exposed to. Oh, and if your freedom of speech is protected from me, guess what? My freedom of speech is protected from you, too. (general 'you,' here, Columbus, not you specifically).

True, there are more nations represented here than simply the USA, but I would like to note that religious speech is also SPEECH, and in the USA, freedom of religion is not only the very FIRST right mentioned in the Bill of Rights, it's the only one that is mentioned twice. It is important that we all be free to believe...and observe...our religious beliefs without official let or hindrance. Indeed, it's vital. How can any of us be free if our beliefs about God are not?

So, atheists MUST be free to be loud mouthed critics of all things theist, but in spite of some atheistic conviction of superiority of their own intellects, theists have every inch as much right to be loud-mouthed proponents of their own opinions, even in the eyesight and earshot of non-believers.

Any other approach is asking for conflict, bitterness and tyranny from whichever group has the power at the moment.

As for banning books by pointing out how bad certain ones are 'for the children,' well, who died and made you the boss of my parenting, you who claim to know better than I do what's 'good for' my kids? Their books and reading choices are MINE to guide, not yours, no matter what philosophical or religious POV you come from.

The only curtailment I would impose on any of this is...as long as the actions of a group doesn't cause harm to anybody who doesn't volunteer (and I do NOT believe that being handed a pamphlet or having one's door knocked upon is 'harm'), then it's nobody's business but that of the group.

But hey. I'll admit to having been brainwashed from my early childhood by my own religious belief and my parents to think this way. I chose to keep the attitude.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

To be fair there is no historical records of Jesus at all \/('~')\/

Yes, I know there are people who also don't accept Josephus writings.
Before the name of Pontius Pilate was discovered in the 60's people said there was No such person as Pilate.
^('~')^
None of which, to me, will change that ' they ' (powers that be) will be saying, "Peace and Security" as the precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14 before Jesus' ushers in global Peace on Earth among men of goodwill - 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3

 

[URAVIP2ME]

But, of course.
The executioner shares in the guilt and deserves the same consequence.

Isn't an executioner carrying out justice for the sake of righteousness.
To me, what guilt would Jesus share in when the executional words from Jesus' mouth will rid the earth of wickedness according to Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16

 

[SomeRandom]

What I see in this thread are Christians and other theists claiming that it's the atheists/secularists/overly PC who are demanding the censorship of books, while the atheists/secularists/overly PC folks are claiming that it's the theists who are the culprits. The problem is, of course, that both groups are correct. EVERYBODY wants to get rid of opposing viewpoints, because of course opposing viewpoints are uncomfortable, irritating and bothersome.

To be fair, the instances of wanting something banned that gets media attention are more often than not the ones involving Theists and nanny state types with at least some vague religious/moral reasoning. The only ones without a religious agenda, that I know of at least, are puritans trying to "protect the children." For example YA is always under pressure to be censored by parental commissions. And those annoying as hell "oh the ebil video games caused X" news stories America seems so fond of. IMO America gives those soccer mum type groups way too much power and time of day. We ignore them or throw them a bone once in a while to shut them up (see the supposed instance of GTAV being "banned" Australia. Something way overblown by Americans throwing a hissy fit.)

 

[columbus]

Before the name of Pontius Pilate was discovered in the 60's people said there was No such person as Pilate.
^('~')^

Like who?
I've never heard of that. There are lots of records of Roman rulers in Judea.
Tom

 

[ShivaFan]

This sounds like something out of Pol Pot's (Saloth Sar) Cambodia and the Khmer Rouge.

I honestly do not believe this was even considered by the United Nations at all, anyone can present a "proposal" includung me, I doubt this proposal even had a roll call but simply moved from the top of the pile of papers over to the left side pile (anything that even remotely to move is moved to the right side pile).

I mean, the UN is pretty crazy as it is, but not that crazy. This might be just propaganda by some anti-UN agenda. I am not a big fan of the UN either, but even I don't believe the UN would be this stupid. You would have the UN body, building, diplomats, et all, evaporate in a violent reaction within 3 days - gone - zippo - burned to the ground - blown to bits - everyone deader than a doornail. The UN doesn't have enough "forces" to survive even 3 days if they passed this. Even the Khmer Rouge were thrown out by Vietnam after a few short years but the KR of Kampuchea actually had a for real army and so on, the UN is a joke. I would give the UN survival time less than one week.

 

[columbus]

This was a proposal submitted to the UN la few years back.

People do things for wacky reasons sometimes, not the least of which is publicity.
I vaguely recall some lawyer in California a few years back. He filed a petition for a proposition in an upcoming election. It was something outrageous, required gay people to be put in a concentration camp or shot on sight or something. It didn't get far in the system, but he got a ton of publicity for his practice. Well worth the hour writing it up and a $200 filing fee.
Tom

 

[Sonofason]

This sounds like something out of Pol Pot's (Saloth Sar) Cambodia and the Khmer Rouge.

I honestly do not believe this was even considered by the United Nations at all, anyone can present a "proposal" includung me, I doubt this proposal even had a roll call but simply moved from the top of the pile of papers over to the left side pile (anything that even remotely to move is moved to the right side pile).

I mean, the UN is pretty crazy as it is, but not that crazy. This might be just propaganda by some anti-UN agenda. I am not a big fan of the UN either, but even I don't believe the UN would be this stupid. You would have the UN body, building, diplomats, et all, evaporate in a violent reaction within 3 days - gone - zippo - burned to the ground - blown to bits - everyone deader than a doornail. The UN doesn't have enough "forces" to survive even 3 days if they passed this. Even the Khmer Rouge were thrown out by Vietnam after a few short years but the KR of Kampuchea actually had a for real army and so on, the UN is a joke. I would give the UN survival time less than one week.

I agree with you. Everyone claims they know things. But everyone lies. There just are no honest people in the world at all. Not a single one.

 

[Sonofason]

I'd love to hear them one day.

One valid reason to believe in God is it gives a man the opportunity to know God.
One valid reason to read your Bible is it gives a man reason to believe in God.
And I will go one more step. One good reason to believe in God is because He exists.

 

[Notanumber]

I guess this has been asked many times before and I admit that I haven’t done a search, but there are many here that are convinced of the existence of God so do those same people believe in the existence of the Devil.

Can you have one without the other?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

One valid reason to believe in God is it gives a man the opportunity to know God.
One valid reason to read your Bible is it gives a man reason to believe in God.
And I will go one more step. One good reason to believe in God is because He exists.

I think we have different perspectives on what "valid" means.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Like who?
I've never heard of that. There are lots of records of Roman rulers in Judea.
Tom

Like who, I'm glad you asked because personally it was one of my high school teachers.
She had to eat crow that day after she had taught us there was No historical person as Pontius Pilate.

 

[columbus]

Like who, I'm glad you asked because personally it was one of my high school teachers.
She had to eat crow that day after she had taught us there was No historical person as Pontius Pilate.

One person made a mistake?
What decade was this? What is the point? Are you sure you really understand and remember what happened?
Tom

 

[URAVIP2ME]

One person made a mistake?
What decade was this? What is the point? Are you sure you really understand and remember what happened?
Tom

Don't you remember or recall things you were taught in school?
I can even remember grade school things such as 'Do Ra Me' and about Pandora's box.
I remember molding clay in kindergarden

It was the 1960's, Tom. How could I Not remember because when the news broke the look on her face showed she was teaching us a falsehood. She had seemed ' proud ' to teach us there was No such person as Pontius Pilate.
So, she, plus scholars who thought the same, had to eat humble pie that day.
I do Not know, of course, who taught her there was No historic Pontius Pilate but she swallowed that teaching.
So, it was more than one person who made a mistake. Perhaps, if she was Not teaching about a non-existent Pilate at the time the news broke out I might Not remember it so well. She did admit to the class she was wrong.

 

[Sonofason]

I guess this has been asked many times before and I admit that I haven’t done a search, but there are many here that are convinced of the existence of God so do those same people believe in the existence of the Devil.

Can you have one without the other?

I believe it exists, but I can't tell you exactly what it is.

I think we have different perspectives on what "valid" means.

I'm sure we have different perspectives with regard to just about everything.