Universal Salvation?

[Quiddity]

Well the thing is that you're limited, unlike God, who by virtue of being God has an infinite way of solving all those problems.

There is no solution. God is allowing men to choose and God will not force anyone to love Him.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

There is no solution. God is allowing men to choose and God will not force anyone to love Him.

Says who?

But you know God doens't need too. God could easily create a universe where people live and die just like this one...but without god....

 

[#H.E.B.Knowledge]

Something I have been thinking about for a long time is Apocatastasis - that is, universal salvation. Originally posited over a thousand years ago by Origen, a greek early church scholar, and later carried on by many thinkers from Saint Gregory of Nyssa to Julian of Norwich, it teaches that all moral agents will be ultimately saved - though evil individuals will be punished for an undefined length of time - even the sourest, most evil devil will return to God.

This teaching was declared anathema by the Synod of Constantinople in 543. My question is, what do other posters here think about this teaching? Do you think it should be more readily accepted by modern Christians or do you believe there is a better justification for eternal punishment?

Blessed be the Holy Three

Elvendon

I believe that everyone and everything is connected to the Most High. So we all end up right back where we start. Salvation is needed when one needs to be saved but what are we actually being "saved" from? If we didn't have people to perform the "bad" then how can we know what "good" is? Even in the universe, with all the stars that produce so much energy, there are also black holes that represent the opposite of that energy. Black holes don't follow natural laws setup by man but that doesn't mean that they weren't created for a reason.

With that being said, how can God punish Himself? If we all come from Him, then we are apart of Him so why would He want to punish Himself? We all are perfect since we were created from a perfect God. If we were anything less, then wouldn't that make Him less as well?

Yet, I Am everything I create – therefore I Am, in a sense, What I Am Not.

Seek to understand this. There is nothing that I am not. Therefore, I Am what I Am, and I Am What I Am Not.

- Divine Dichotomy

 

[sojourner]

Doubt it. Given that you are in an island with a handful of others that don't reflect historical Christianity in the slightest.

"The Remnant" is a huge biblical theme.

Whatever glimpses of universalism one does see, was deemed heretical.

At one time, a solarcentric universe was also heretical.

a loving God will allow someone to simply not choose Him through their acts and therefore can't be with God.

Until... when? Who do you suppose has more patience? Humanity? Or God?

 

[captainbryce]

My question is, what do other posters here think about this teaching? Do you think it should be more readily accepted by modern Christians or do you believe there is a better justification for eternal punishment?

I don't believe that the devil or people who follow him should be granted eternal salvation. That would not be a righteous system of justice in my opinion. I believe that evil should not be rewarded in such a way. Therefore, I do not believe that Christians should adopt such a view (especially since it clearly contradicts what scripture has to say on the matter).

 

[sojourner]

I don't believe that the devil or people who follow him should be granted eternal salvation. That would not be a righteous system of justice in my opinion. I believe that evil should not be rewarded in such a way. Therefore, I do not believe that Christians should adopt such a view (especially since it clearly contradicts what scripture has to say on the matter).

Who says heaven is a "reward?"

 

[BruceDLimber]

Universal salvation - with a loving God how could there be anything else?

Indeed!

And not only do Baha'is accept almost every other religion as legitimate and of God, but as the Baha'i scriptures put it,

"...It is even possible that the condition of those who have died in sin and unbelief may become changed - that is to say, they may become the object of pardon through the bounty of God, not through His justice - for bounty is giving without desert, and justice is giving what is deserved. As we have power to pray for these souls here, so likewise we shall possess the same power in the other world, which is the Kingdom of God. Are not all the people in that world the creatures of God? Therefore, in that world also they can make progress. As here they can receive light by their supplications, there also they can plead for forgiveness and receive light through entreaties and supplications. Thus as souls in this world, through the help of the supplications, the entreaties and the prayers of the holy ones, can acquire development, so is it the same after death. Through their own prayers and supplications they can also progress, more especially when they are the object of the intercession of the Holy Manifestations."
−(Some Answered Questions, page 232)


Best!

Bruce

 

[#H.E.B.Knowledge]

I don't believe that the devil or people who follow him should be granted eternal salvation. That would not be a righteous system of justice in my opinion. I believe that evil should not be rewarded in such a way. Therefore, I do not believe that Christians should adopt such a view (especially since it clearly contradicts what scripture has to say on the matter).

"Righteous system of justice" would consist of people who don't accept Jesus as their savior to go to eternal damnation? But I think even when Jesus was being beaten and tortured, he forgave those who were actually abusing him. So if Jesus, a man, could forgive those who physically beat him WITHOUT THEM ASKING, then why can't God forgive His children without them asking? I believe the line Jesus used was, "Father,forgive them, for they know not what they are doing." - Luke 23:34

Or is it bitterness for some Christians to think that they spent so much time TRYING to do "right" that they can't even imagine a person who doesn't even care getting into "heaven"? I can't imagine a ALL KNOWING, ALL POWERFUL, ALL FORGIVING, AND ALL LOVING(Unconditionally) GOD to intentionally cast HIS children into a lake of "fire".

 

[Quiddity]

Says who?

But you know God doens't need too. God could easily create a universe where people live and die just like this one...but without god....

You lost me there. Isn't that exactly how it is now? Or are you saying a world where religion or a desire for any type of religion or god does not exist?

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

You lost me there. Isn't that exactly how it is now? Or are you saying a world where religion or a desire for any type of religion or god does not exist?

Lol I'm saying God can do whatever God wants. I would take Gods words with the understand that God can go back on them and I would have nothing to defend myself against God doing so.

 

[Quiddity]

Lol I'm saying God can do whatever God wants. I would take Gods words with the understand that God can go back on them and I would have nothing to defend myself against God doing so.

Like making a square fit in a round hole?

Anything? :areyoucra

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Like making a square fit in a round hole?

Anything? :areyoucra

Yeah

Anything.

You want to tell God that your human logic means God can't do that?

 

[Quiddity]

Yeah

Anything.

You want to tell God that your human logic means God can't do that?

I wouldn't have to, he'd know it's absurd to have something contrary to His nature. Kinda like telling a fish not to swim. Once you eliminate logic and reason, it's completely pointless to discuss anything about God or even about existence itself.


asfdl;kjas;ldfjk = qoiquweoriuew

Nothing matters and everything matters.

It's just plain stupid.

 

[Sand Dancer]

The UU in me thinks this might be true.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

I wouldn't have to, he'd know it's absurd to have something contrary to His nature. Kinda like telling a fish not to swim. Once you eliminate logic and reason, it's completely pointless to discuss anything about God or even about existence itself.


asfdl;kjas;ldfjk = qoiquweoriuew

Nothing matters and everything matters.

It's just plain stupid.

Says you a human who can't even begin to understand Gods natire