UNRWA fires 12 workers over suspected involvement in the October 7 attacks on Israel

[Bthoth]

If they insist on martyring themselves, there is very little to be done to prevent it.

It's suicide by IDF; just like the school shooters here in America. They want to die... at the hand of the Jews.

very strange.

maybe you can help them overcome such thinking?

 

[Bthoth]

@Bthoth,

Here ya go... they want to be killed by the Jews. That's why the martyr declarations often end with an assertion: "He received what he wanted" death at the hand of a Jew. This is from Al-Aqsa TV in 2018. What do they want? Reward. Double reward.

The truly good, want to assist the world to overcome such hatred.

Any ideas?

The israelis want peace, and a good life for everyone involved. That's it. The enemies of israel want death for themselves and others. The simple truth is, winning a war against this sort of enemy requires convincing the enemy that it is a mistake to ever attack ever again. That's any war. That's every war.

Even Jews are against israel. How can you account for that?

There are nut cases in every group. Cant use them few to cause Samson option.

This is what motivates them. The reward for killing and for being killed. They LOVE death.

None LOVE death. Too much embellishment.

So counting bodies is meaningless.

I agree, so now no more use of 10/7 as an excuse.

Otherwise count how many new HAMAS post 10/7. Israel is creating new levels of hatred as it sits today.

Just as meaningless as your statements in favor of those whom you imagine are "Jews".

I trust Jews will do what is right, especially if they are to participate in the NEW jerusalem and the survival of mankind.

But you are mixed up on the responsibilities of such observance.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

trumps a punk and i have known more about trump, than perhaps any person that you have been in direct contact with.

**mod edit**

There is zero evidence to suggest otherwise.

wow

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

That's a big problem and why I am called nasty names.

What nasty names?

You might wish to consider the possibility that the "big problem" is not always the other guy.

 

[dybmh]

I apologize, your posts will take some time to parse and properly reply to.
I hope it doesn't come off like nitpicking, but I will have to make a series of replies to properly explain my view, I don't want to come off as avoiding the thrust of your post.

The main thrust is this:

There is good strong evidence that UNRWA employees participated in the Oct. 7th attack. 2 were captured on the battlefield. Others were caught on video. Others were implicated due to GPS data on their phones, pictures, and videos. Originally the claim was made "there is zero evidence". There is good strong evidence. The private citizens and the press are not provided these details. This is a criminal investigation. It takes a long time to develop a case like this and even longer for the details to be made public.

Most recently, you claimed the posts against UNRWA was a fanatical smear campaign. It's not. UNRWA's activity is focused in the majority on education. IMPACT-se, the non-partisan Institute for Monitoring Peace and Cultural Tolerance in school education has been studying and documenting UNRWA's work. UNRWA is participating in the war against israel in spite of its mandate and the values it espouses. Over the past three years in the face of criticism, the violent lessons have increased not decreased. UNRWA took an active role in publishing and disseminating the content.

UNRWA is a problem. They are a key element in the war HAMAS is waging against israel. They are piles of evidence against them. The PDFs I brought above have the evidence showing UNRWA is actively participating, and has been actively participating, in MAKING war, raising an army, using the funding of the UN.

 

[dybmh]

What I find symptomatic and deeply ugly is the @dybmh claim that ...

"The Palestinian identity is nothing more than resitance to israel's existance in a land which they believe was promised entirely to the Arabs."​

... which bluntly disparages "the Palestinians" as illegitimate in their entirety.

1) Affection has no bearing on the truth of what I wrote.

2) It is not an illegitimate ethnic identity IF, big if, the history behind the ethno-genesis is true. Since it is recent history, the truth value of the Palestinian origin story can be evaluated with significant certainty.

The Israel-Palestine conflict : one hundred years of war
James L. Gevin, PHD
Pg. 93

The Israel-Palestine conflict : one hundred years of war : Gelvin, James L., 1951- : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

x, 296 pages : 23 cm

archive.org

James L. Gelvin - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

What I find symptomatic ... which bluntly disparages "the Palestinians"...

The root cause of the conflict is the false narrative. The Palestinian national identity is founded on a false narrative. If it were not violent, repeatedly and consistently violent, then perhaps the individual Palestinians feelings of being disparaged should be a priority.

 

[dybmh]

Where does the article address IDF coordination [with Jordan to air drop aid into northern Gaza]?

Jordan has neither confirmed nor denied the coordination. I'm not able to locate the article where I read that. The journalist asked the question because the aid was launched from Jordan, crossed Israeli territory, and entered Gaza. This cannot occur without Israeli air-force coordination.

The MediaLine reports:

"Analysts point to the strong relations Jordan’s military continues to have with the Israeli military and the fact that Jordan continues to carry out aid drops in Gaza and has established a second military field hospital as testifying to this strong relationship."

Jordan Key To Resolving Current Conflict, Leading Officials Agree - The Media Line

The country of Jordan has played a leading […]

themedialine.org

I don't doubt that some coordination is required whenever a third party seeks to operate in a war zone. I just find giving top billing to the Israeli military for allowing an airdrop to be a bit strained.

Understood. Israel has a more active role in establishing a route and a convoy for the aid trucks to reach the entirety of Gaza. A 17 truck convoy was sent by the IDF to northern Gaza yesterday.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The Israel-Palestine conflict : one hundred years of war
James L. Gevin, PHD

Confirmation bias? See Wikipedia: Palestinian nationalism > Origins and starting points. You'll find a number of perspectives referenced, including that of James L. Gelvin.

The root cause of the conflict is the false narrative.

Is it not you who have just demonstrated how easy it is to insinuate a misleading, if not false, narrative?

 

[dybmh]

trapped in Gaza

Quarantined. Violent Extremist Organizations have embedded themselves in the Palestinian population and psyche. The neighboring nations do not want them in their country.

What I've found very interesting about the text-book research I brought, is, the Egyptian textbooks have been found to take extraordinary effort to denounce and reject radical islam. They know the Palestinians are a dangerous people. Which is why Egypt has partnered with israel to isolate Gaza and deeply restrict their access to weapons.

 

[dybmh]

Confirmation bias? See Wikipedia: Palestinian nationalism > Origins and starting points. You'll find a number of perspectives referenced, including that of James L. Gelvin.

It's not confirmation bias. I am simply showing that the *actual* Palestinian ethnic identity is not illegitimate in principle.

Is is not you who have just demonstrated how easy it is to insinuate a misleading, if not false, narrative?

No. It's not me. As soon as the difficulties for aid distribution were presented to the managing agency, by the WFP, actions were taken to resolve the problem.

IDF appears to be utilizing an SLA framework for inter-agency accountability which is being used to produce the documentation requested by the ICJ. The SLA includes collecting metrics, daily status reports, a daily meeting where stakeholders present "issues" to the managing agency. The issues are triaged and assigned a Service Level, usually 0-5. The aid distribution issue to northern Gaza seems to have rec'd level 1 priority, which is a 1 day response.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Jordan has neither confirmed nor denied the coordination. I'm not able to locate the article where I read that.

Were I to hazard a guess, you probably read it in a report about last November. In any event, I would urge you to be a bit more scrupulous in your reporting, if only for the sake of you own credibility. (See post #288)

As you well know, whatever might be said about Israel-Palestine, the topic is first and foremost complicated.

 

[dybmh]

YOU put into writing why and what makes a Jew and Judaism (torah) so good for mankind?

I need convincing that you are going to listen with an open mind. If you would like to do that, open a thread on it and tag me, like this: "@dybmh".

You'll know that I've been tagged successfully if my screen-name with the @ sign is a hyperlink.

 

[dybmh]

Were I to hazard a guess, you probably read it in a report about last November. In any event, I would urge you to be a bit more scrupulous in your reporting, if only for the sake of you own credibility. (See post #288)

As you well know, whatever might be said about Israel-Palestine, the topic is first and foremost complicated.

Whether or not israel is restricting aid to Gaza is not complicated.
Whether or not UNRWA dropped the ball on this is also not complicated.

These sort of inter-agency hand-offs often come with an undisclosed "gift" from the departing agency. Sometimes it's intentional; sometimes it's due to mismanagement; sometimes its due to lack of funding and the hand-off is a consequence of the working group's collapse.

 

[dybmh]

very strange.

maybe you can help them overcome such thinking?

The school curriculum in Gaza is going to be completely over-hauled.

 

[dybmh]

Even Jews are against israel. How can you account for that?

Naturally. We don't kick people out for having crazy ideas.

I agree [that body count is meaningless], so now no more use of 10/7 as an excuse.

The manner of the attack on Oct. 7th, and the history of attacks, exposes the nature of the threat and the actions required to render it inert.

Israel is creating new levels of hatred as it sits today.

There are protests in Gaza against Hamas. If I recall, they're chanting "Release the hostages, Sinwar is an ***" in Rafah last week.

Changing hearts and minds is secondary to eliminating the present threat. The people will appreciate clean water, food, access to economic opportunity, and most important, the return of elections. All of that is a product of israeli security in their home. It will take 50-100 years, maybe more, for the moderates who have been decimated to anchor the Palestinian's nation. But once they get a taste for what it feels like to live in a society lacking the violent extremist mafia over-lords, many will appreciate the israeli security presence. They may not love it, but I think they will appreciate it.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Whether or not israel is restricting aid to Gaza is not complicated.
Whether or not UNRWA dropped the ball on this is also not complicated.

I simply suggest that you report fairly and thoughtfully.

 

[Bthoth]

wow

lost for words?

 

[Bthoth]

What nasty names?

Anti semitic. Did you forget or is that kind of nasty just normal to you?

You might wish to consider the possibility that the "big problem" is not always the other guy.

I always self reflect well before imposing upon another. The big problem is the bias and flagrance of what others consider norm.

 

[Bthoth]

Naturally. We don't kick people out for having crazy ideas.

You do not speak for any 'we'. I pointed out that many Jews are against israel.

The manner of the attack on Oct. 7th, and the history of attacks, exposes the nature of the threat and the actions required to render it inert.

And what about consideration for the other side. What will make israelis stop?

There are protests in Gaza against Hamas. If I recall, they're chanting "Release the hostages, Sinwar is an ***" in Rafah last week.

Sure, palestinians are jailed for even defending themselves from the terrorist (settlers).

Changing hearts and minds is secondary to eliminating the present threat.

So you choose violence before empathy?

The people will appreciate clean water, food, access to economic opportunity, and most important, the return of elections.

Are you implying that israel has a right to control the indigenous (the locals)?

All of that is a product of israeli security in their home. It will take 50-100 years, maybe more, for the moderates who have been decimated to anchor the Palestinian's nation.

Israel has not only decimated the palestinian population with oppression, incarceration and apartheid but has done more damage to Jews worldwide, than anything since ww2.

But once they get a taste for what it feels like to live in a society lacking the violent extremist mafia over-lords, many will appreciate the israeli security presence.

Israel was born from extremist, mafia style (familia) and cannot even grant palestinians in the west bank with security.

They may not love it, but I think they will appreciate it.

What will be appreciated is when Israelis grow a conscious and comprehend what LOVE is.

 

[Bthoth]

The school curriculum in Gaza is going to be completely over-hauled.

Sure, that equality is for all mankind to comprehend. Maybe teach them that no one is born to be better than any other souls.

Just as I believe israelis should have their quest for a temple on that mount to be eliminated or impose criminal through to legal penalties.

Maybe that should be Bidens next executive order. Israel must stop any attempts to pursue the mount or 'we the people' end all funding and impose harsh sanctions to all family members.