Unvaccinated, vaccinated and covid variants.

[We Never Know]

I've heard that early on. We are now dealing with a more virulent variant. That changes the numbers upward.

It seems its still varies between 70% to 90%.
Depending on what up-to-date source one looks at.

 

[ecco]

Yet the delta variant wouldn't be here to spread if it wasn't brought in.

Edit.
I forgot to add "I know this is so hard for you to understand"

Yeah. You also forgot to address my comments.
You also forgot to offer up suggestions as to the best way to prevent anyone from entering the Country - especially American Citizens.

Your "solution" reminds me of an old joke.

A herd of elephants is rampaging toward a small village. The King asked his first advisor what to do. The first advisor said to build a moat around the village 50 feet deep. The King asked how they could accomplish that in time to avoid the stampeding elephants. The first advisor responded: "I gave you the solution, you need to ask the second advisor as to the best way to implement it".

 

[ecco]

I still haven't seen any convincing argument explaining what danger unvaccinated people supposedly present to those who are vaccinated. It would seem to me that unvaccinated people only represent a danger to themselves.

Uh huh.

 

[We Never Know]

I didn't see much that hasn't already been addressed in some ways but, since you accuse me of basically avoiding addressing your post.......

The Biden administration is catching hell from the Conservative right-wing (especially Florida Governor DeSantis) for suggesting that everyone at large indoor activities wear masks.

Catching hell is better than risking spreading new varients

How much hell would they receive if they completely banned all entry to the USA? That would have to include American citizens - right?

Who said banned? I said isolated or quarantined for a recommended period time.

The delta variant did indeed come into this country from a person entering from outside. The delta variant has spread to become the dominant strain in America primarily by people in America who are unvaccinated.
I know this is so hard for you to understand.

Yes and even unvaccinated.

 

[ecco]

I still haven't seen any halfway plausible argument for why unvaccinated people represent any danger to the vaccinated.

Plausible to you.

The argument seems to revolve around so-called "breakthough infections". The line is that even if you are vaccinated you can still contract covid and you still need to be afraid.

"Seems to"? Vaccinated people can get infected. That was known from before the vaccines were released to the public.

That is kind of a self-contradictory line, since if people who are vaccinated can still die of covid, then the vaccines must be far less effective than we have been told and the choice not to become vaccinated far less momentous.

There is nothing self-contradictory about it. Fourth-grade math tells you that if something is 94% effective then it is 6% not effective. You and everyone else in the country were told the Phizer vaccines were 94/6. How is it that you didn't learn that last December? How is it that you are confused about it in August 2021?

 

[ecco]

The Biden administration is catching hell from the Conservative right-wing (especially Florida Governor DeSantis) for suggesting that everyone at large indoor activities wear masks.

Catching hell is better than risking spreading new varients

Are you saying the Biden Administration's policy is better than Florida's DeSantis policy?

 

[We Never Know]

Are you saying the Biden Administration's policy is better than Florida's DeSantis policy?

Im saying what it says...

"Catching hell is better than risking spreading new varients"

 

[We Never Know]

Plausible to you.



"Seems to"? Vaccinated people can get infected. That was known from before the vaccines were released to the public.



There is nothing self-contradictory about it. Fourth-grade math tells you that if something is 94% effective then it is 6% not effective. You and everyone else in the country were told the Phizer vaccines were 94/6. How is it that you didn't learn that last December? How is it that you are confused about it in August 2021?

It seems you think everyone needs to take or be forced to take the vaccine. Not everyone has to take the vaccine to achieve herd immunity.

The vaccine protects you so the unvaccinated are mainly hurting themselves and other unvaccinated.

The unvaccinated here haven't produced the variants. They are brought in from other countries.

In my opinion even when herd immunity is achieved, covid will still be here and so will yearly shots. Covid isn't going anywhere.

 

[ecco]

Im saying what it says...

"Catching hell is better than risking spreading new varients"

INWI

 

[ecco]

The vaccine protects you so the unvaccinated are mainly hurting themselves and other unvaccinated.

If the unvaccinated only hurt themselves, then we probably wouldn't have the Delta variant. The unvaccinated, the ones who primarily get sick and spread the disease, are the ones who are the breeding grounds for virus mutations.

A just-released study cited on CNN today found that 99.99% of vaccinated people don't get sick enough to enter hospitals.

The unvaccinated here haven't produced the variants. They are brought in from other countries.

So far. But cases are going up because of the unvaccinated and the reversal of social distancing and mask regulations. See above.

In my opinion even when herd immunity is achieved, covid will still be here and so will yearly shots. Covid isn't going anywhere.

Your opinion is noted. So are your qualifications.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Because complaining about travellers doesn't serve their political purpose. Much better to create the myth of the evil, stupid and dangerous-to-everyone-else "anti-vaxxer" and then try to associate that image that they created with their political enemies.

They figure every unvaccinated person is a potential "bomb threat." The reasoning is the studies they show that unvaccinated people could carry the virus and thus they could be infected.

As for name calling it seems like its associated with herd mentality, media, and CDC and WHO (etc) experts. Its a logical fallacy: if the experts say it it must be 100% fact.

As for connecting unvaccinated as antivaxxers connected to political enemies sounds like it's based on generalization-another logical fallacy: if a small group believes it they all believe it.

There are a couple other logical fallacies.

 

[We Never Know]

If the unvaccinated only hurt themselves, then we probably wouldn't have the Delta variant. The unvaccinated, the ones who primarily get sick and spread the disease, are the ones who are the breeding grounds for virus mutations.

A just-released study cited on CNN today found that 99.99% of vaccinated people don't get sick enough to enter hospitals.


So far. But cases are going up because of the unvaccinated and the reversal of social distancing and mask regulations. See above.



Your opinion is noted. So are your qualifications.

CNN?I would trust what Trump said more than I would CNN.

 

[ecco]

CNN?I would trust what Trump said more than I would CNN.

OK. Let's see what Trump said...

Trump Downplayed Coronavirus Threat Throughout February

Here are some of Trump’s comments in February about the coronavirus:

Feb. 10 at the White House: “Now, the virus that we’re talking about having to do — you know, a lot of people think that goes away in April with the heat — as the heat comes in. Typically, that will go away in April. We’re in great shape, though. We have 12 cases, 11 cases, and many of them are in good shape now.”

Feb. 23 to reporters: “We have it very much under control in this country.”

Feb. 24 on Twitter: “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. We are in contact with everyone and all relevant countries. CDC & World Health have been working hard and very smart. Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”

Feb. 26 at the White House: “So, we’re at the low level. As they get better, we take them off the list, so that we’re going to be pretty soon at only five people. And we could be at just one or two people over the next short period of time. So, we’ve had very good luck.”

Feb. 26 at a news conference: “And again, when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done.”

Feb. 27 at a White House meeting with African American leaders: “It’s going to disappear. One day — it’s like a miracle — it will disappear.”​

 

[We Never Know]

OK. Let's see what Trump said...

Trump Downplayed Coronavirus Threat Throughout February

Here are some of Trump’s comments in February about the coronavirus:

Feb. 10 at the White House: “Now, the virus that we’re talking about having to do — you know, a lot of people think that goes away in April with the heat — as the heat comes in. Typically, that will go away in April. We’re in great shape, though. We have 12 cases, 11 cases, and many of them are in good shape now.”

Feb. 23 to reporters: “We have it very much under control in this country.”

Feb. 24 on Twitter: “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. We are in contact with everyone and all relevant countries. CDC & World Health have been working hard and very smart. Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”

Feb. 26 at the White House: “So, we’re at the low level. As they get better, we take them off the list, so that we’re going to be pretty soon at only five people. And we could be at just one or two people over the next short period of time. So, we’ve had very good luck.”

Feb. 26 at a news conference: “And again, when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done.”

Feb. 27 at a White House meeting with African American leaders: “It’s going to disappear. One day — it’s like a miracle — it will disappear.”​

The point went right over your head. I don't trust Trump what so ever.

 

[InChrist]

Thought I would just posted this as a thread....

Why are people complaining about the unvaccinated but not travelers?

As far as I'm aware the covid variants are being brought into the US from other countries.

Now whether those travelers are vaccinated or are not vaccinated I don't know.

I frown on travelers for the spread and varients of the virus more than I frown unvaccinated people here in the US with some that don't even hardly get out of their community.


B.1.1.7 (Alpha): This variant was first detected in the United States in December 2020. It was initially detected in the United Kingdom.

B.1.351 (Beta): This variant was first detected in the United States at the end of January 2021. It was initially detected in South Africa in December 2020.

P.1 (Gamma): This variant was first detected in the United States in January 2021. P.1 was initially identified in travelers from Brazil, who were tested during routine screening at an airport in Japan, in early January.

B.1.617.2 (Delta): This variant was first detected in the United States in March 2021. It was initially identified in India in December 2020.

The two newest....

B. 1.617.2.1 or AY.1(Delta plus)
First identified in Europe in March 2021.

lineage C.37(lambda) first detected in Peru in December 2020 is in the US now.

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

It’s most likely the mass vaccination and those who are vaccinated which are creating the variants...


Bossche, a former top vaccinologist at the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, clearly not an anti-vaxxer, has been frantically warning that mass vaccination (especially with a narrow spike protein vaccine) during the middle of a pandemic is unprecedented and comes with a degree of risk. He warns that weak and waning antibodies from the vaccine can create a natural selection for the virus to mutate around and induce a vicious cycle of endless strengthening of the virus, at least quantitatively if not qualitatively. This is the exact opposite of what Fauci is saying – that somehow more mass vaccination equals less viral immune escape.

Here is a small synopsis of Dr. Bossche's warning from March, when there was little evidence to support his concern:

Why is nobody worried about "immune escape" whereas Covid-19 has already escaped people's innate immunity as reflected by multiple emerging, much more infectious, viral variants (most likely due to the global implementation of infection prevention measures)? Vaccine deployment in the ongoing mass immunization campaigns are highly likely to further enhance (adaptive) immune escape as none of the current vaccines will prevent replication/ transmission of viral variants. The more we use these vaccines for immunizing people in the midst of a pandemic, the more infectious the virus will become. With increasing infectiousness comes an increased likelihood of viral resistance to the vaccines. It's not exactly rocket science, it's a basic principle taught in a student's first vaccinology class: One shouldn't use a prophylactic vaccine in populations exposed to high infectious pressure (which is now certainly the case as multiple highly infectious variants are currently circulating in many parts of the world). To fully escape selective immune pressure exerted by vaccinal antibodies, Covid-19, a highly mutable virus, only needs to add another few mutations in its receptor-binding domain ...I am beyond worried about the disastrous impact this would have on our human "race". Not only would people lose vaccine-mediated protection but also their precious, variant-nonspecific (!), innate immunity will be gone (this is because vaccinal antibodies outcompete natural antibodies for binding to Covid-19, even when their affinity for the viral variant is relatively low).
Horowitz: No, this is not an epidemic of the unvaccinated

 

[jonathan180iq]

As far as I'm aware the covid variants are being brought into the US from other countries.

Isolation for a bit wouldn't hurt

We recognize, of course, that biological activity doesn't give a two hoots about political boundaries, right? Or are we assuming that isolating one population from another would somehow put an end to variants and mutations?

How many times do we have to get the flu vaccine because it mutates constantly and creates new versions that we're no longer immune to? Is that just limited to travelers? How many Rhinoviruses exist?

COVID is here to stay. It will be part of the human problem forever. The only way to deal with things like this is for all of humanity to make healthy medical choices that will protect not just themselves but others as well. Practice good hygiene, get vaccines when available, yadda yadda yadda

We live in a global society. All of these issues are global issues, not limited to one nation or one people.

We currently rank 33rd in world vaccinations - we're part of the problem. I think it's better to critique others only after your own house is already in order.

 

[InChrist]

Thought I would just posted this as a thread....

Why are people complaining about the unvaccinated but not travelers?

As far as I'm aware the covid variants are being brought into the US from other countries.

Now whether those travelers are vaccinated or are not vaccinated I don't know.

I frown on travelers for the spread and varients of the virus more than I frown unvaccinated people here in the US with some that don't even hardly get out of their community.


B.1.1.7 (Alpha): This variant was first detected in the United States in December 2020. It was initially detected in the United Kingdom.

B.1.351 (Beta): This variant was first detected in the United States at the end of January 2021. It was initially detected in South Africa in December 2020.

P.1 (Gamma): This variant was first detected in the United States in January 2021. P.1 was initially identified in travelers from Brazil, who were tested during routine screening at an airport in Japan, in early January.

B.1.617.2 (Delta): This variant was first detected in the United States in March 2021. It was initially identified in India in December 2020.

The two newest....

B. 1.617.2.1 or AY.1(Delta plus)
First identified in Europe in March 2021.

lineage C.37(lambda) first detected in Peru in December 2020 is in the US now.

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Strange that vaccinated people from Canada can’t travel across the northern border into the U.S. (with a few exceptions), but thousands of unvaccinated people are coming across the southern border.

 

[We Never Know]

Strange that vaccinated people from Canada can’t travel across the northern border into the U.S. (with a few exceptions), but thousands of unvaccinated people are coming across the southern border.

Ones political, the other is not.

 

[Kooky]

Strange that vaccinated people from Canada can’t travel across the northern border into the U.S. (with a few exceptions), but thousands of unvaccinated people are coming across the southern border.

Do you have any source to confirm those claims or are you going to expect us to take you at your word about events you were not present for and likely heard from a third hand source at best?

 

[InChrist]

Do you have any source to confirm those claims or are you going to expect us to take you at your word about events you were not present for and likely heard from a third hand source at best?

Northern border..

Canada Reopens To Travelers, But With U.S. Still Closed, Border Town Roads, Businesses Remain Quiet

Governors press Biden administration over Canadian border restrictions, ask for explanation



Southern border...

30 percent of migrants in border facilities refused COVID shot: report

People with coronavirus are crossing the US-Mexico border for medical care | CNN

FACT CHECK: Are migrants with COVID-19 being released into Texas? | KXAN Austin