Upanayanam for Ladies?

[kalyan]

There was a stage where I considered becoming a HIndu. Frankly, it was people like Kalyan that made me seek a different faith. Why has a beautiful religion like Hinduism acquired so many practitioners who are superstitious, misogynistic, nationalistic, etc? It's very sad.

All I can say is It is your karma, dharma outlives you and it does not matter if you practice it or not, you are just a tiny drop of vast ocean and so are we...Just accept it is Sri Krushna or god's will instead of putting blame on others........

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

There was a stage where I considered becoming a HIndu. Frankly, it was people like Kalyan that made me seek a different faith. Why has a beautiful religion like Hinduism acquired so many practitioners who are superstitious, misogynistic, nationalistic, etc? It's very sad.

David, one important thing to remember is that you will encounter this kind of attitude in every religion to some degree. It's worth noting that religion is just used as a reason to justify an already misogynist, superstitious or nationalistic attitude. Without religion, people would find other ways to justify their backward behavior because people are exceptionally good at justifying anything. I'm sorry you were turned off of Hinduism by this behavior, but I also understand. You are right were you need to be at this moment, so no worries.

 

[Shantanu]

There was a stage where I considered becoming a HIndu. Frankly, it was people like Kalyan that made me seek a different faith. Why has a beautiful religion like Hinduism acquired so many practitioners who are superstitious, misogynistic, nationalistic, etc? It's very sad.

Sir, you do not understand Hinduism. The Upanayan ceremony that bestows priesthood in Vedic conception of society has strict rules that need to be adhered to and practiced: men are the priests and women are not among Vedic Brahmins. That is the society that prevailed for thousands of years in India. Today too the Vedic system that is based on verna caste divisions of society is practiced by a sizeable section of Indians. They do not see the roles assigned to men and women as either superstition (they would say it is based on their knowledge of science) nor misogyny (which is a western concept) but enables the formulation for a Vedic society that works for the benefit of humanity as a species. The reason to have a sacred thread is to conduct rituals to Brahman, the energy-material of the universe which has the Trimurti guna-consciousness deities and through those rituals to preserve the Vedic society. This society exists distributed among Hindus throughout India and the rituals take place through all manner of celebrations and festivities like weddings, deaths, worshipping through puja, etc. That is the heart of Indian life.

But to be Hindu you do not need to practice Vedic life. A person can come from any of the vernas and have his or her own individual religious practices. For example Sri Krishna the Supreme God is beyond the Trimurti deities of the guna consciousness. If a person wishes to go to the Supreme God and has that realisation he or she will find that he has to take off his sacred thread or Sri Krishna will not accept him or her as a Brahmin that practices the worship of another Entity. Sri Krishna is not worshipped through rituals. One needs to transcend the gunas to be with Sri Krishna. A person from any of the castes can approach Sri Krishna.

So it all depends on what a person wishes to worship and how to practice his own religion.

If you wish to be a Hindu you must have appreciation for the complexities of Nature and the entitlement that Hinduism bestows on its practitioners to worship different elements of Nature in the way they see fit.

 

[Ekanta]

Shastra doesn't prescribe Upanayana for women. Moreover our traditional acharyas like Adi Shankara didn't ever support such that. Instead from scriptures it is very clear that women are forbidden to undergo any vedic rituals & even they can not hear Veda.

Shastra says so because women and Shudra are generally situated in lower Gunas. Veda welcomes only those who have situated in Satvika Guna. The people situated in lower varnas and so are greatly influenced by Maya, can misunderstood Veda and so there would be a great danger to true Vedic teachings. So its not so difficult to understand this. Veda restricts them because veda fears that they would interprate her wrongly.

Ram Krishna Hari....

It doesnt quite make sense... I've read about two reasons which contradict it:
1. Women are (generally) more sattvic than men.
2. It might not always have been so.

To quote Sathya Sai Baba (and his translator):

Women have satvaguna in ample measure, They are by nature helpful, tender, compassionate, humble and trustful. Next,they also have a good measure of Thamoguna. They are timid, shy and non enterprising. It is good that women are such.They have been endowed with only a small measure of Rajoguna ! This is the general truth!
http://www.saibaba.ws/teachings/womanhood.htm

IN ANCIENT TIMES WOMEN TOO HAD THE SACRED THREAD CEREMONY
Baba then speaks against male domination. No man should dominate a woman. He gave an example: There is a Hindu ritual that every boy goes through, named “Upanayanam” or ‘sacred thread’ ceremony. When boys are initiated into the Gayatri Mantra, there is a special celebration called Upanayanam. Upa means ‘extra’, while nayanam is ‘eye’; so it means ‘the additional eye of wisdom’. These two eyes (Anil Kumar points to his eyes) are worldly, but the third eye, upanayana, the eye of wisdom, enables us to glean from spiritual literature the wisdom which helps us have a spiritual experience here on earth. Baba says that in ancient times, women also had the sacred thread. It was only in the ‘middle ages’, because of male domination, that this practice was discontinued. Then it was changed so that only boys could have Upanayanam. So ladies also had Upanayanam earlier, as that was the practice back in those days. But man, out of his possessiveness and domination, changed the Upanayanam (original sacred thread) into a circular, sacred knot, called a Mangala Sutra, which is to be tied around the neck of every woman at the time of marriage. To recap, Baba is saying that women are as eligible and qualified as men for the Upanayanam, the sacred thread ceremony.
http://voiceofsai.com/?wpfb_dl=348

 

[kalyan]

It doesnt quite make sense... I've read about two reasons which contradict it:
1. Women are (generally) more sattvic than men.
2. It might not always have been so.

To quote Sathya Sai Baba (and his translator):

Women have satvaguna in ample measure, They are by nature helpful, tender, compassionate, humble and trustful. Next,they also have a good measure of Thamoguna. They are timid, shy and non enterprising. It is good that women are such.They have been endowed with only a small measure of Rajoguna ! This is the general truth!
http://www.saibaba.ws/teachings/womanhood.htm

IN ANCIENT TIMES WOMEN TOO HAD THE SACRED THREAD CEREMONY
Baba then speaks against male domination. No man should dominate a woman. He gave an example: There is a Hindu ritual that every boy goes through, named “Upanayanam” or ‘sacred thread’ ceremony. When boys are initiated into the Gayatri Mantra, there is a special celebration called Upanayanam. Upa means ‘extra’, while nayanam is ‘eye’; so it means ‘the additional eye of wisdom’. These two eyes (Anil Kumar points to his eyes) are worldly, but the third eye, upanayana, the eye of wisdom, enables us to glean from spiritual literature the wisdom which helps us have a spiritual experience here on earth. Baba says that in ancient times, women also had the sacred thread. It was only in the ‘middle ages’, because of male domination, that this practice was discontinued. Then it was changed so that only boys could have Upanayanam. So ladies also had Upanayanam earlier, as that was the practice back in those days. But man, out of his possessiveness and domination, changed the Upanayanam (original sacred thread) into a circular, sacred knot, called a Mangala Sutra, which is to be tied around the neck of every woman at the time of marriage. To recap, Baba is saying that women are as eligible and qualified as men for the Upanayanam, the sacred thread ceremony.
http://voiceofsai.com/?wpfb_dl=348

you know it and I know it, this is a complete bull. I don't know where this guy sathya sai baba gets this from...Starting from shirdi sai baba, all sai babas are fakes and frauds, I would not SEEK their opinions on this spiritual matters. Saibaba cult was made bigger from western funds flowing into bhArat. This is their last straw to disturb the worship of Vedic gods like VishNu and Shiva......They have tried pouring all kinds of funds to inject christianity in India and still doing it ofcourse but not working to the levels they expected. I hate these convert christian missionary morons who try to give pamphlets and all to convert the gullible and poor people of India with MONEY, these people should be shamed publicly, the same with sai cult....It is one thing to convert because of interest and fascination and completely opposite thing to convert by using their weaknesses which is being done in India

 

[Ekanta]

So Sathya Sai Baba is a christian cult? Kind of funny since he states himself that:
"My main tasks are fostering of the Vedas and fostering of the devotees"
http://www.saibaba.ws/articles/mission.htm

 

[kalyan]

So Sathya Sai Baba is a christian cult? Kind of funny since he states himself that:
"My main tasks are fostering of the Vedas and fostering of the devotees"
http://www.saibaba.ws/articles/mission.htm

@Ekanta I was talking about Shirdi sai baba cult. I did not say anything about recent sathya sai baba other than that we cannot trust him on the spirtual stuff.....well, he may do good outside but as far as spiritual knowledge is concerned, I would stay away from him.....Bad knowledge is worse than no knowledge.

 

[Ekanta]

@EkantaI did not say anything about recent sathya sai baba other than that we cannot trust him on the spirtual stuff.....well, he may do good outside but as far as spiritual knowledge is concerned, I would stay away from him.....Bad knowledge is worse than no knowledge.

I have first hand experience, was there two times, 7 months total, had an interview also.
He did many miracles, one time he healed my broken sandals (just a leela). At the interview he knew all my questions before I asked them. He then looked me deep in the eye's for a long time and offred me "liberation" right at the spot, it was infinite power and infinite love, but I became afraid, since I began to lose my mind completely and had to look away. I was not ready. There is knowledge and there is knowledge... People can think what they want, I know what I know. Anyway, back to women and upanayanam?