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"Upon this rock", which rock?
- Thread starter Colt
- Start date
KW
Well-Known Member
1 Tim 3:15
This is the church of the living God, which is the pillar and foundation of the truth.
We all are. Why do Christians ignore some of the scripture? He told you. You have one father. You are to pray, "our father." Why ignore multiple books telling you this? Jesus was an example, not an exception.
Maybe Jesus was talking about this rock:
... and he called Simon "Rock" because Simon rocked.
... and he called Simon "Rock" because Simon rocked.
KW
Well-Known Member
Does the Holy Spirit teach contradictory things to different people.
KW
Well-Known Member
Jesus said, the Father and I are one, and, if you have seen me you have seen the Fsther.
rational experiences
Veteran Member
A scientist should ask. How much earth mass changed from dust into dust before the asteroid stopped breaking up. Carbonising earths upper heavens?
From Moses pyramid temple destruction to new technology?
You know stable God rock. And earths ice saviour stops melting. And don't forget baby human healthy genesis once sacrificed as human babies is allowed returned healed expression?
I don't know he says.
So did Phi stop falling out? You know signs?
Seeing you said crop circles was the devil mowing. As a man of science.
Did life by saviour ice and wandering star passing by save life?
Yes says the human. A thinker theist first. Yes it had. I actually taught that human story myself as a scientist.
What about when Rome rebuilt Stonehenge. Knowing crop circles would return as an updated temple pyramid model. Wasn't the Jewish population angered?
Yes.
Why?
As one temple position Jerusalem was important. Circuit by Jeru turned. Place of peace where earth dust mass converted into new coloured gas masses. In the stone body.
Like today in the past you updated the model again as nuclear power plant. Claiming it safe yet it was evil.
Now introduced another model to finish us off! Machines. The warning of sacrificed man the scientist.
Warning.....baby man life sacrificed born then dies sacrificed....
Stephen...last end name of man biblical.
Haw the king!
As it's real. Human men attacked life by man's science himself encoded marked coded the attack in biology.
As men did it to life on earth.
From Moses pyramid temple destruction to new technology?
You know stable God rock. And earths ice saviour stops melting. And don't forget baby human healthy genesis once sacrificed as human babies is allowed returned healed expression?
I don't know he says.
So did Phi stop falling out? You know signs?
Seeing you said crop circles was the devil mowing. As a man of science.
Did life by saviour ice and wandering star passing by save life?
Yes says the human. A thinker theist first. Yes it had. I actually taught that human story myself as a scientist.
What about when Rome rebuilt Stonehenge. Knowing crop circles would return as an updated temple pyramid model. Wasn't the Jewish population angered?
Yes.
Why?
As one temple position Jerusalem was important. Circuit by Jeru turned. Place of peace where earth dust mass converted into new coloured gas masses. In the stone body.
Like today in the past you updated the model again as nuclear power plant. Claiming it safe yet it was evil.
Now introduced another model to finish us off! Machines. The warning of sacrificed man the scientist.
Warning.....baby man life sacrificed born then dies sacrificed....
Stephen...last end name of man biblical.
Haw the king!
As it's real. Human men attacked life by man's science himself encoded marked coded the attack in biology.
As men did it to life on earth.
I don't think either one of us is cherry picking... it was just a subject matter that was in dispute from the beginning...
As Origen said:
- Origen (185-254)
- “And if we too have said like Peter, ‘Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God,’ not as if flesh and blood had revealed it unto us, but by light from the Father in heaven having shone in our heart, we become a Peter, and to us there might be said by the Word, ‘Thou art Peter,’ etc. For a rock is every disciple of Christ of whom those drank who drank of the spiritual rock which followed them, and upon every such rock is built every word of the church, add the polity in accordance with it; for in each of the perfect, who have the combination of words and deeds and thoughts which fill up the blessedness, is the church built by God. But if you suppose that upon that one Peter only the whole church is built by God, what would you say about John the son of thunder or each one of the Apostles? Shall we otherwise dare to say, that against Peter in particular the gates of Hades shall not prevail, but that they shall prevail against the other Apostles and the perfect? Does not the saying previously made, ‘The gates of Hades shall not prevail against it,’ hold in regard to all and in the case of each of them? And also the saying, ‘Upon this rock I will build My church’? Are the keys of the kingdom of heaven given by the Lord to Peter only, and will no other of the blessed receive them? But if this promise, ‘I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven,’ be common to the others, how shall not all the things previously spoken of, and the things which are subjoined as having been addressed to Peter, be common to them? For in this place these words seem to be addressed as to Peter only, ‘Whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven,’ etc; but in the Gospel of John the Saviour having given the Holy Spirit unto the disciples by breathing upon them said, ‘Receive ye the Holy Spirit,’ etc, . . . And if any one says this to Him, not by flesh and blood revealing it unto Him but through the Father in heaven, he will obtain the things that were spoken according to the letter of the Gospel to that Peter, but, as the spirit of the Gospel teaches, to every one who becomes such as that Peter was.” (Commentary on Matthew, 12:10-11)
I would have to disagree.
As John the Baptist said, "Behold the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world" and as Isaiah forted "He was wounded for our transgression and bruised for our iniquities."
There are just too many scriptures to take it the way you are saying it. IMO
I have no idea how this applies or what you are trying to say. Sorry.
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
And has a history of protecting pedophile priests from being prosecuted for raping children, then relocating these sexual predators to other parishes where they can continue to rape other children, and has also made attempts to silence the victims of the sexual abuse.
rational experiences
Veteran Member
Men say brain physical mental human a conscious condition. Is the exact living place when God by science of man...his choice has vengance on life.
By depraved thinking feelings.
As God in mass is not stable the warning.
Heavens reactive natural God.
God O earth carpenter tectonic reactive natural God.
Ice saviour gave earths it's conscious bio stability exact science.
You were warned.
The behaviour mentally now is lack of conscious spiritual control now.
When humans warn the Rise of Satan comes upon the earth as the devil mows his signs....crop circles.
Satan in science list of burning gases.
In millions of acres.
Signs of our time.
As men gave earths heavens sun time...not our holy day time.
The day immaculate spirit gas is sacrificed body in mother womb space holy light. As the only light holy lovingly supportive says a human thinker.
The living light that protected life mind body is gone.
We are living all the signs of warning.
Reasoned. A human hypocrite rich yet knowing he was a hypocrite was chaste and non sexual. By choice. Entrained to his spiritual control.
Proved his spirituality exact.
To be the holy father legal moment to oversee the hurt Sacrificed children on earth.
Most of you gave up that honour.
As we see exactly your Choice.
A father is a man adult not sexually a father. Agreed whose position was to protect the children no longer safe by natural life with a father. As position man of Jesus warnings a brother not a father.
Father spiritually mentally emotionally only. Not physically. Not embodied holy by mind conscious holy.
By depraved thinking feelings.
As God in mass is not stable the warning.
Heavens reactive natural God.
God O earth carpenter tectonic reactive natural God.
Ice saviour gave earths it's conscious bio stability exact science.
You were warned.
The behaviour mentally now is lack of conscious spiritual control now.
When humans warn the Rise of Satan comes upon the earth as the devil mows his signs....crop circles.
Satan in science list of burning gases.
In millions of acres.
Signs of our time.
As men gave earths heavens sun time...not our holy day time.
The day immaculate spirit gas is sacrificed body in mother womb space holy light. As the only light holy lovingly supportive says a human thinker.
The living light that protected life mind body is gone.
We are living all the signs of warning.
Reasoned. A human hypocrite rich yet knowing he was a hypocrite was chaste and non sexual. By choice. Entrained to his spiritual control.
Proved his spirituality exact.
To be the holy father legal moment to oversee the hurt Sacrificed children on earth.
Most of you gave up that honour.
As we see exactly your Choice.
A father is a man adult not sexually a father. Agreed whose position was to protect the children no longer safe by natural life with a father. As position man of Jesus warnings a brother not a father.
Father spiritually mentally emotionally only. Not physically. Not embodied holy by mind conscious holy.
KW
Well-Known Member
This is admonition to grow in faith. He is saying we should aspire to be like Peter.
More:
ORIGEN
“Look at [Peter], the great foundation of the Church, that most solid of rocks, upon whom Christ built the Church [Matt. 16:18]. And what does our Lord say to him? ‘Oh you of little faith,’ he says, ‘why do you doubt?’ [Matt. 14:31]” (Homilies on Exodus 5:4 [A.D. 248]).
rational experiences
Veteran Member
Spiritual secret rich men's society today aware knew human consciousness was losing its purpose. Morality by healing.
Instead of claiming a rich man historic is a criminal in ancient society. It gave them unnatural status. idolisation in fact.
So they built the church as a building of resonance to heal sick minds. Knew how a brain had been assisted naturally.
Today made another choice. Mind control. Which was already AI evil. Machine only status.
Is about how dishonest a self thinker conscious owner is. Advised by biology then references machines.
As thoughts should tell any human their exact choice of subject against life with humanity family a holy life.
Seeing they all are first position a natural human and not any of their theories about when I'm not a human or when I won't be a human.
As you're told exact in science terms when your not a living human with god you'd just be an ape life. Living.
Not a dust body.
Not a chemical body from Rock or your AI god of man's machine.
Why Alchemy was banned as first evil man's thesis. Allowing Alchemy to re emerge began the reinvention of lifes destruction.
Human choices all the time.
Instead of claiming a rich man historic is a criminal in ancient society. It gave them unnatural status. idolisation in fact.
So they built the church as a building of resonance to heal sick minds. Knew how a brain had been assisted naturally.
Today made another choice. Mind control. Which was already AI evil. Machine only status.
Is about how dishonest a self thinker conscious owner is. Advised by biology then references machines.
As thoughts should tell any human their exact choice of subject against life with humanity family a holy life.
Seeing they all are first position a natural human and not any of their theories about when I'm not a human or when I won't be a human.
As you're told exact in science terms when your not a living human with god you'd just be an ape life. Living.
Not a dust body.
Not a chemical body from Rock or your AI god of man's machine.
Why Alchemy was banned as first evil man's thesis. Allowing Alchemy to re emerge began the reinvention of lifes destruction.
Human choices all the time.
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
He’s saying, Jesus told us we are all children of God, hence;
Matthew 6:9
Matthew 18:14
etc.
Colt
Well-Known Member
Isaiah was talking about Israel as the “suffering servant” being “wounded for our transgression and bruised for our iniquities.” The followers of Jesus forced him into OT scriptures that were not about him.
Christians often quote everyone but Jesus?
Abraham is our father,” they answered.
If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would c do what Abraham did. 40As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41You are doing the works of your own father.” <---NOT supposed to kill Jesus!
“We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”
42Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. 43Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me!46Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me?47Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.” <----- NOT supposed to kill Jesus!
Jesus doesn’t sound like he approves of being rejected and killed as some sort of primitive sin sacrifice! Were the prophets supposed to be murdered as well?
Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!
33“You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?34Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.35And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.36Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.
37“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. 38Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’ ” <---when the Jews finally accept the original, pre-cross Gospel message then Jesus will likely return for a visit.
If the Jews who were chosen to receive the Gospel would have accepted the Gospel, Jesus and hence the Father "the rock", then they would be preaching it today from the 2nd Temple and Jerusalem would not have been destroyed! Jesus would have relinquished his material body in a manner of his choosing and returned to heaven. Tragically that was not the case!
"He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God— children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God."
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Colt
Well-Known Member
This is how the Urantia revelation recounts the exchange. I believe it to be a more accurate or more likely presentation of the exchange.
"As they paused for lunch, Jesus suddenly confronted the twelve with the first question he had ever addressed to them concerning himself. He asked this surprising question, “Who do men say that I am?”
Jesus had spent long months in training these apostles as to the nature and character of the kingdom of heaven, and he well knew the time had come when he must begin to teach them more about his own nature and his personal relationship to the kingdom. And now, as they were seated under the mulberry trees, the Master made ready to hold one of the most momentous sessions of his long association with the chosen apostles.
More than half the apostles participated in answering Jesus’ question. They told him that he was regarded as a prophet or as an extraordinary man by all who knew him; that even his enemies greatly feared him, accounting for his powers by the indictment that he was in league with the prince of devils. They told him that some in Judea and Samaria who had not met him personally believed he was John the Baptist risen from the dead. Peter explained that he had been, at sundry times and by various persons, compared with Moses, Elijah, Isaiah, and Jeremiah. When Jesus had listened to this report, he drew himself upon his feet, and looking down upon the twelve sitting about him in a semicircle, with startling emphasis he pointed to them with a sweeping gesture of his hand and asked, “But who say you that I am?” There was a moment of tense silence. The twelve never took their eyes off the Master, and then Simon Peter, springing to his feet, exclaimed: “You are the Deliverer, the Son of the living God.” And the eleven sitting apostles arose to their feet with one accord, thereby indicating that Peter had spoken for all of them.
When Jesus had beckoned them again to be seated, and while still standing before them, he said: “This has been revealed to you by my Father. The hour has come when you should know the truth about me. But for the time being I charge you that you tell this to no man. Let us go hence.”
And so they resumed their journey to Caesarea-Philippi arriving late that evening and stopping at the home of Celsus, who was expecting them. The apostles slept little that night; they seemed to sense that a great event in their lives and in the work of the kingdom had transpired.
"After they had partaken of their meal and were engaged in discussing plans for the forthcoming tour of the Decapolis, Jesus suddenly looked up into their faces and said: “Now that a full day has passed since you assented to Simon Peter’s declaration regarding the identity of the Son of Man, I would ask if you still hold to your decision?” On hearing this, the twelve stood upon their feet, and Simon Peter, stepping a few paces forward toward Jesus, said: “Yes, Master, we do. We believe that you are the Son of the living God.” And Peter sat down with his brethren.
Jesus, still standing, then said to the twelve: “You are my chosen ambassadors, but I know that, in the circumstances, you could not entertain this belief as a result of mere human knowledge. This is a revelation of the spirit of my Father to your inmost souls. And when, therefore, you make this confession by the insight of the spirit of my Father which dwells within you, I am led to declare that upon this foundation will I build the brotherhood of the kingdom of heaven. Upon this rock of spiritual reality will I build the living temple of spiritual fellowship in the eternal realities of my Father’s kingdom. All the forces of evil and the hosts of sin shall not prevail against this human fraternity of the divine spirit. And while my Father’s spirit shall ever be the divine guide and mentor of all who enter the bonds of this spirit fellowship, to you and your successors I now deliver the keys of the outward kingdom—the authority over things temporal—the social and economic features of this association of men and women as fellows of the kingdom.” And again he charged them, for the time being, that they should tell no man that he was the Son of God.
"As they paused for lunch, Jesus suddenly confronted the twelve with the first question he had ever addressed to them concerning himself. He asked this surprising question, “Who do men say that I am?”
Jesus had spent long months in training these apostles as to the nature and character of the kingdom of heaven, and he well knew the time had come when he must begin to teach them more about his own nature and his personal relationship to the kingdom. And now, as they were seated under the mulberry trees, the Master made ready to hold one of the most momentous sessions of his long association with the chosen apostles.
More than half the apostles participated in answering Jesus’ question. They told him that he was regarded as a prophet or as an extraordinary man by all who knew him; that even his enemies greatly feared him, accounting for his powers by the indictment that he was in league with the prince of devils. They told him that some in Judea and Samaria who had not met him personally believed he was John the Baptist risen from the dead. Peter explained that he had been, at sundry times and by various persons, compared with Moses, Elijah, Isaiah, and Jeremiah. When Jesus had listened to this report, he drew himself upon his feet, and looking down upon the twelve sitting about him in a semicircle, with startling emphasis he pointed to them with a sweeping gesture of his hand and asked, “But who say you that I am?” There was a moment of tense silence. The twelve never took their eyes off the Master, and then Simon Peter, springing to his feet, exclaimed: “You are the Deliverer, the Son of the living God.” And the eleven sitting apostles arose to their feet with one accord, thereby indicating that Peter had spoken for all of them.
When Jesus had beckoned them again to be seated, and while still standing before them, he said: “This has been revealed to you by my Father. The hour has come when you should know the truth about me. But for the time being I charge you that you tell this to no man. Let us go hence.”
And so they resumed their journey to Caesarea-Philippi arriving late that evening and stopping at the home of Celsus, who was expecting them. The apostles slept little that night; they seemed to sense that a great event in their lives and in the work of the kingdom had transpired.
"After they had partaken of their meal and were engaged in discussing plans for the forthcoming tour of the Decapolis, Jesus suddenly looked up into their faces and said: “Now that a full day has passed since you assented to Simon Peter’s declaration regarding the identity of the Son of Man, I would ask if you still hold to your decision?” On hearing this, the twelve stood upon their feet, and Simon Peter, stepping a few paces forward toward Jesus, said: “Yes, Master, we do. We believe that you are the Son of the living God.” And Peter sat down with his brethren.
Jesus, still standing, then said to the twelve: “You are my chosen ambassadors, but I know that, in the circumstances, you could not entertain this belief as a result of mere human knowledge. This is a revelation of the spirit of my Father to your inmost souls. And when, therefore, you make this confession by the insight of the spirit of my Father which dwells within you, I am led to declare that upon this foundation will I build the brotherhood of the kingdom of heaven. Upon this rock of spiritual reality will I build the living temple of spiritual fellowship in the eternal realities of my Father’s kingdom. All the forces of evil and the hosts of sin shall not prevail against this human fraternity of the divine spirit. And while my Father’s spirit shall ever be the divine guide and mentor of all who enter the bonds of this spirit fellowship, to you and your successors I now deliver the keys of the outward kingdom—the authority over things temporal—the social and economic features of this association of men and women as fellows of the kingdom.” And again he charged them, for the time being, that they should tell no man that he was the Son of God.
That is your personal viewpoint, but when Matthew wrote:
"16 When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:
17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses."
The apostle Matthew that knew him better than you and I, disagrees with your position.
However, you can believe what you believe if you want... it is called free will. I simply choose to believe the apostle.