Utah's Proposed Sex Ed Law

[T-Dawg]

I think you're just funnin' with us. You don't seriously want government all up in your business controlling whether or not you're fit to have children...(?)....Sounds like a theme best left in the movies.....:areyoucra

It's one of the State's jobs, just like it's the job of the State to regulate businesses (if private enterprise would even be allowed under this hypothetical idealized regime), protect the environment from individuals and the private sector, educate children (and adults, if they still need it), maintain building standards and safety, deal with criminals, quell rioters, provide cultural unity and racial equality, build infrastructure, provide ideas to comedians, redistribute income, support the poor, root out corruption amongst the rich, stimulate scientific development...


I already know I'm not fit to have children. The government won't have to tell me, although it should anyway. But there's lots of people who are having or might have children that shouldn't be having children, and they don't seem to understand how immoral and destructive it is for them to have children.
Realistically, there are two options we have for children that are either defective or were born to emotionally/morally/intellectually unfit parents - we either leave them to die in the streets (or live horrible lives, if they survive their situation), or the State supports them. The former is morally distasteful, and the latter essentially makes having children a massive negative externality.
The thing about having children is that sexual urges largely override the rationality that people are supposed to use when making decisions, even amongst people who would otherwise make rational decisions. Combine this with the fact that the cost of bearing children is largely taken up by the State in the event that the parent fails (hence the externality), so that the incentive to be cautious about having children is removed from bad people. This creates a situation in which bad parents have no incentive to stop cranking out babies.
There is also the fact that some people, for reasons I will never understand, see no moral problem with having children with genetic defects. This not only puts a negative marginal benefit on society, it is also extremely unfair to the child.

I not only favor sex ed, but I want other topics taught:
- How to start & run a business
- Contract law
- Home & appliance repairs
- Social skills: negotiation, handling conflict, argumentation, civil behavior
- Constitutional law

Force kids to learn it....no religious exemptions or excuses.
So it will be when I become dictator.

Those sound like good classes. And, of course, religious exemptions shouldn't be allowed for any class - I find it difficult to believe that something so blatantly unconstitutional could find its way into our public schools.

 

[Revoltingest]

That's a shame. The single most practical and useful class I took in high school was a home economics class where we learned how to budget and balance a checkbook, among other things. Not that math and science courses aren't crucial, but in terms of daily practicality, I relied on that class for getting on my feet in college. And my parents never once taught me how to balance a checkbook or manage money, which always kind of irked me. I remember asking about it, but it got pushed to the side in their busy lives.

Did you learn to pick insects out of knot holes with a twig in your beak?
Bit***en skill!

 

[Skwim]

Here, the schools ditched many trade school type programs for kids who aren't college bound.
It's as though those kids don't matter. Big failure in my book.

I had shop classes in high school. In woodworking we made a "pump lamp" A small table lamp whose column was in the shape of a hand operated water pump. That went on for the whole semester. Then I had Print class where we learned how to manually set loose type in a printers galley, a skill that fell dead at the turn of the twentieth century. So not all such classes are worth saving,

 

[Revoltingest]

I had shop classes in high school. In woodworking we made a "pump lamp" A small table lamp whose column was in the shape of a hand operated water pump. That went on for the whole semester. Then I had Print class where we learned how to manually set loose type in a printers galley, a skill that fell dead at the turn of the twentieth century. So not all such classes are worth saving,

Making buggy whips & top hats aren't the most useful skills either.
But wood shop, metal shop, auto shop, cooking, electronics, construction, etc have durable value.

 

[Reverend Rick]

You just topped it tenfold.

Opinions are like butt holes, everyone has one and most stink.Lets get back to the logic of this whole issue. Because some parents do not perform their duties and responsibilities as parents, the state is going to take over that responsibility FOR EVERYBODY.Why not just have an optional available class for those who need it?I agree it should be available, just not mandatory.The state takes away children from unfit parents. Should they take away all children because of the actions or inactions of the few?My biggest objection is the assumption that most parents are incapible of raising their children correctly. Who gets to decide that? "Correctly" is debatable right?

 

[McBell]

Opinions are like butt holes, everyone has one and most stink.Lets get back to the logic of this whole issue. Because some parents do not perform their duties and responsibilities as parents, the state is going to take over that responsibility FOR EVERYBODY.Why not just have an optional available class for those who need it?I agree it should be available, just not mandatory.The state takes away children from unfit parents. Should they take away all children because of the actions or inactions of the few?My biggest objection is the assumption that most parents are incapible of raising their children correctly. Who gets to decide that? "Correctly" is debatable right?

It is not the States fault that you equate 'educating' children with "raising" children.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Who's children are they? That's a rather strange thing to ask, they're obviously wards of the State. The parents just produce the children for the State, they don't own them.

I hope you are joking here. As a parent, I am responsible for my children. You cannot be responsible for anything if you do not have control of the situation.

 

[Reverend Rick]

It is not the States fault that you equate 'educating' children with "raising" children.

It is the states responsibility to give me an option to educate my children. I can send them to any school of my choosing, including private schools that do not receive their money.

 

[T-Dawg]

I hope you are joking here. As a parent, I am responsible for my children. You cannot be responsible for anything if you do not have control of the situation.

Even if you could be responsible for your children, that wouldn't make it right. If we gave you the right to raise your own children without government regulation, we would have to give everyone else the right to raise their own children without government regulation, and that's just wrong.

 

[McBell]

It is the states responsibility to give me an option to educate my children. I can send them to any school of my choosing, including private schools that do not receive their money.

You do have the option to educate your children yourself.
You even have the option to have your children "opt out" of certain specifics of puplic education.

Seems to me you yourself have even stated that you did just that at one point with your own children.

So to be completely honest with you, I fail to see what all your ******** and whining is about.

 

[Songbird]

Did you learn to pick insects out of knot holes with a twig in your beak?
Bit***en skill!

Naw, man, me mama taught me that, of course!

 

[jarofthoughts]

Opinions are like butt holes, everyone has one and most stink.Lets get back to the logic of this whole issue. Because some parents do not perform their duties and responsibilities as parents, the state is going to take over that responsibility FOR EVERYBODY.Why not just have an optional available class for those who need it?I agree it should be available, just not mandatory.The state takes away children from unfit parents. Should they take away all children because of the actions or inactions of the few?My biggest objection is the assumption that most parents are incapible of raising their children correctly. Who gets to decide that? "Correctly" is debatable right?

Why all this fuzz about sex-ed? :sarcastic
How come I don't see people up in arms about math, English or history?
What is so special about teaching kids about reproduction, contraception and telling them that, yes indeed, there are people out there who are attracted to the same sex as they are.

If someone can give me an answer that isn't based off some religious notion (convoluted or not), then MAYBE I'll take them seriously.

 

[Dezzie]

isn't it bad to teach little kids about something like sex? don't you think that it would drive them to 'explore' the theory learned in class and put it in practice at such early ages?

Technically, hiding something from someone, is what makes them curious. If you talk to your kids about these things at an early age, they won't hear it from their friends first.

 

[Dezzie]

for example, no parent would have their young child watch porn.

Porn is a completely different thing. That is done between two strangers, or people who are not "in love" with one another. If you teach your children about sex in a way that is not pornographic in nature areyoucra), I don't see why it would be harmful in any way. Actually... I would still want to teach my kids what porn is too now that I think about it. I want my kids to learn about what me and my husbands views are on it. I wouldn't show them it... but I would explain to them what it is.

I really think that educating your kids on these things, is extremely important. Since the first 5-6 years are the most important in their development as a human being, teaching them younger may be a good thing. That's what I believe anyway...

 

[Father Heathen]

Opinions are like butt holes, everyone has one and most stink.Lets get back to the logic of this whole issue. Because some parents do not perform their duties and responsibilities as parents, the state is going to take over that responsibility FOR EVERYBODY.Why not just have an optional available class for those who need it?I agree it should be available, just not mandatory.The state takes away children from unfit parents. Should they take away all children because of the actions or inactions of the few?My biggest objection is the assumption that most parents are incapible of raising their children correctly. Who gets to decide that? "Correctly" is debatable right?

There has to be standards when it comes to education. As a tax payer I want the children to get the highest quality education possible with my money. You realize that the U.S. is slipping behind the rest of the world in that regard, right? Also, if we make specific subjects optional, then all should be optional. Teaching about the civil rights movement and the holocaust might be offensive to racist families, for example. So by your logic history class shouldn't be taught, or should at least optional, right?

 

[Dezzie]

There has to be standards when it comes to education. As a tax payer I want the children to get the highest quality education possible with my money. You realize that the U.S. is slipping behind the rest of the world in that regard, right? Also, if we make specific subjects optional, then all should be optional. Teaching about the civil rights movement and the holocaust might be offensive to racist families, for example. So by your logic history class shouldn't be taught, or should at least optional, right?

I have lost faith in the public school system to be completely honest. I plan on home schooling my children whenever I may have them. I think it would be more beneficial in their development.

 

[Father Heathen]

Even if you could be responsible for your children, that wouldn't make it right. If we gave you the right to raise your own children without government regulation, we would have to give everyone else the right to raise their own children without government regulation, and that's just wrong.

What on earth are you babbling about?

 

[Father Heathen]

I have lost faith in the public school system to be completely honest. I plan on home schooling my children whenever I may have them. I think it would be more beneficial in their development.

As long as it's not typical homeschooling.

"What's 2 + 2, Timmy?"

"Goddidit, Momma!"

"Very good! Here's a gold star sticker."

 

[Dezzie]

As long as it's not typical homeschooling.

"What's 2 + 2, Timmy?"

"Goddidit, Momma!"

"Very good! Here's a gold star sticker."

Noooooo... I'm going to be a darn good teacher for my kids. It's going to be a LOT of work... but it needs to be done. I'm even continuing my education by going for a degree in General Studies. I'm really trying hard not for forget what 2+2 is!

 

[T-Dawg]

What on earth are you babbling about?

Oh, I was responding to Rick's assertion that he has the right to do what he wants with his children.