Utah's Proposed Sex Ed Law

[Reverend Rick]

Even if you could be responsible for your children, that wouldn't make it right. If we gave you the right to raise your own children without government regulation, we would have to give everyone else the right to raise their own children without government regulation, and that's just wrong.

But we do have that right Dawg. I have the right to move my family to the Congo if I want. I could send a child to a bording school in Alaska if I choose. It is not a hypothetical discussion of right and wrong, it is a fact.

 

[Reverend Rick]

There has to be standards when it comes to education. As a tax payer I want the children to get the highest quality education possible with my money. You realize that the U.S. is slipping behind the rest of the world in that regard, right? Also, if we make specific subjects optional, then all should be optional. Teaching about the civil rights movement and the holocaust might be offensive to racist families, for example. So by your logic history class shouldn't be taught, or should at least optional, right?

If you really want your child to receive a top notch education you would do what Obama is doing, keep your children as far away from public education as you can.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Technically, hiding something from someone, is what makes them curious. If you talk to your kids about these things at an early age, they won't hear it from their friends first.

I never said children should be hid from anything, I just have a problem with an adult stranger talking about sex with my child. That is my wife and myself's job, not the state. When the state cannot even teach all the children how to read, I do not trust them with subjects like these.

 

[Father Heathen]

If you really want your child to receive a top notch education you would do what Obama is doing, keep your children as far away from public education as you can.

Or we could work to improve it, for the sake of children and society. Besides, it isn't like Obama has a choice due to security reasons.

And you just dodged my points, so I'm assuming you have no answer to them.

 

[Reverend Rick]

And you just dodged my points, so I'm assuming you have no answer to them.

Please don't assume, I will address your points as requested.

 

[Reverend Rick]

There has to be standards when it comes to education.

Yes, but those standards should be acceptable to the parents and tax payers.

As a tax payer I want the children to get the highest quality education possible with my money. You realize that the U.S. is slipping behind the rest of the world in that regard, right?

I am well aware of this. We should be teaching children how to think, not what to think. Teachers are failing miserably. Perhaps we should pay them more and get rid of the ineffective teachers instead of protecting them.

Also, if we make specific subjects optional, then all should be optional. Teaching about the civil rights movement and the holocaust might be offensive to racist families, for example. So by your logic history class shouldn't be taught, or should at least optional, right?

Our current history books are nothing but a white mans version of history and really is a waste of time for many Americans. Now if we where to teach more black history and American Indian history and a little more truth about slavery from all perspectives, I could get behind this. The sad truth is, I would be happy if a child leaves the school system with the ability to read, type and balance a check book. At the moment, this is not even happening. Most children cannot even show you where China is on a world map.

 

[Katzpur]

Update: Said proposed law will not go into effect. Our sane, rational (Republican) Governor vetoed it.

 

[T-Dawg]

But we do have that right Dawg. I have the right to move my family to the Congo if I want. I could send a child to a bording school in Alaska if I choose. It is not a hypothetical discussion of right and wrong, it is a fact.

Actually, we were having a hypothetical discussion of right and wrong. There's not really much point in trying to debate whether or not you do have the right to raise your children (as opposed to should), since the US tends to be overly individualistic on most issues (coincidentally, the few issues the US doesn't go with individualism, such as on wiretapping, are the issues in which an individualist approach would actually be reasonable. Sometimes I wonder if Americans go out of their way to intentionally do everything wrong).

 

[Skwim]

Update: Said proposed law will not go into effect. Our sane, rational (Republican) Governor vetoed it.

Good! and I understand why you identified your rational governor as Republican, so few are.

 

[Carpenter Rabbi]

Update: Said proposed law will not go into effect. Our sane, rational (Republican) Governor vetoed it.

Good. Dunno why the need to identify as Republican, though, unless to point out that there are deep schisms in the Republican party over such issues. (As there are in Democrats as well. )

 

[Sunstone]

I love the Republican attack on women. It's about time one of our political parties stood up to those frightenning creatures and put them in their place.

 

[Engyo]

I have a theory which seems to surprise and offend most people - I think no topic is off-limits to kids, and that "age-appropriate" is a BS term to shield them from various effects of knowledge - like fear, passing on inappropriate information to their friends, etc. But I think not telling kids things - and telling them that they're not allowed to know those things - is breeding grounds for more curiosity about whatever they're being shielded from. It can foster obsession, and they inherit our strange need to hide the information too. In other words, they learn that sex is bad, they seek to find out why, and they hide their seeking from their parents.

I tell my kids pretty openly and matter-of-factly about what's going on in their surroundings, whether they ask about a financial matter, why their dad and I may have argued, etc. Involving them in discussions about things they're afraid of seems to ease their fear and make them feel respected and valued as people who can process information. I think it also encourages a curiosity that will help their intelligence as they grow.

Once again, TMI alert, but one recent example....my 10-year-old son walked in on me in the bathroom when I was menstruating. He said, "So that's what the girls in my class will go through starting about next year, huh?" (I'm not a nudist, but I forget to lock doors.) It's just life.

My point is it's very important to me to teach my kids a sense of level-headedness and desire to learn, and keeping things in the dark impedes that. If they sense that I'll freak out about something, they won't approach me and they'll be freaked out too.

And in my opinion, nothing is sacred. Nothing is too inappropriate to discuss, wonder about, learn about.

What she said.

 

[Revoltingest]

And in my opinion, nothing is sacred.

Oh....you're one of those!

 

[Apex]

Dunno why the need to identify as Republican, though, ...

Its because many people here will jump at the chance to highlight some dumb decision made by a Republican for no other reason then to make Republicans looks dumb as a group.

 

[Revoltingest]

Its because many people here will jump at the chance to highlight some dumb decision made by a Republican for no other reason then to make Republicans looks dumb as a group.

You're suggesting blind partisanship here?!?
That's unpossible.

I too gets tired of duplicitous talk like "war on women", "elitism", "family values", "quantitative easing", & "murdering babies".

 

[Apex]

You're suggesting blind partisanship here?!?
That's unpossible.

 

[Katzpur]

Good. Dunno why the need to identify as Republican, though, unless to point out that there are deep schisms in the Republican party over such issues. (As there are in Democrats as well. )

True. I identified him as Republican primarily because I think most heavily Democratic states wouldn't have even bothered to propose such an idiotic law. Utah is probably one of the most conservative states in the country, so I thought it was interesting that the governor who vetoed the bill was Republican himself. It just goes to show that there are still a few sane Republicans left.

 

[Carpenter Rabbi]

Utah is probably one of the most conservative states in the country, so I thought it was interesting that the governor who vetoed the bill was Republican himself. It just goes to show that there are still a few sane Republicans left.

Good to know. It's hard to see sometimes (especially from up in Canada.)