Vastness of Space Suggests There Is No Almighty Creator

[Sleeppy]

We're explorers..

 

[oldbadger]

But what if we are special as the human race and God wants good things for us? It starts with individuals making decisions about what they think is truth ..it doesn't matter whether there are masses of them or not. Its not a members only club..anyone can join.

But we are not special, I reckon that we are just collections of atoms here for a time. But that is not bad. We are still part of the whole.

By the way, I can't tell if your emoticon is 1)sweet goofy and friendly , 2) mocking me /making faces at me, or 3) trying to pick up on me.

That tells me more about you.................
A smile is just a smile, but how you see it is all about you.

 

[oldbadger]

Interested to know what you find, either way.

My notes were collected about 4-5 years ago.
Before I went to access them I looked for any recent multiverse proposals.
There was a news report in April this year which is much more up to date and I offer a random three IT news items about this.

What do you think?

Multiverse: have astronomers found evidence of parallel universes ...
https://www.theguardian.com/.../multiverse-have-astronomers-found-evidence-of-parallel-universes
17 May 2017 ... They call it the multiverse. It's a cosmos in which there are multiple universes.
And by multiple, I mean an infinite number. These uncountable ...
We May Have Uncovered the First Ever Evidence of the Multiverse
https://futurism.com/new-evidence-about-cold-spot-in-space-could-support-case-for-a-multiverse/
27 Apr 2017 ... A recent study on a space anomaly that has perplexed scientists for years has
some suggesting that it could be explained by a parallel "bubble ...

First evidence of the multiverse? Scientists think Cold Spot in space ...
www.telegraph.co.uk/.../first-evidence-multiverse-scientists-think-cold-spot-space-could/
17 May 2017 ... "If further, more detailed, analysis proves this to be the case then the Cold Spot
might be taken as the first evidence for the multiverse – and ...

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Wow, you didn't hear a thing I said, did you? I tried with good intentions anyway.

I read what you said. I still stand that we are nothing special, we really aren't unique, and that it's arrogance to think we are anything special, especially to claim we are made in god's image.

 

[missmay]

But we are not special, I reckon that we are just collections of atoms here for a time. But that is not bad. We are still part of the whole.


That tells me more about you.................
A smile is just a smile, but how you see it is all about you.

Ha..I thought about that afterwards (in re: to your emoticon). ..but you have to admit, his round eyes can be taken as more than just a smile. Maybe this choice of emoticon tells me about you too. (You like to keep people guessing??..just teasing (maybe..).

Hmmm, Christianity makes much more sense to me. It doesn't make any sense to me that an intelligent deity/creator who created humans to be able to love, grieve, want to have meaning in life etc. would be that impersonal. I mean with all of the struggles and pain in life..it would seem even more cruel than just impersonal to make us this way in a world that can be so harsh at times, to simply sit back and say "Well, I made you..isn't that eneough? "

 

[blü 2]

John 14
Read the entire chapter and Jesus explains Himself.

But that's simply a parable, not statements about reality. Since truth is conformity with reality, the statements are not examples of truth, nor capable of being true.

 

[missmay]

I read what you said. I still stand that we are nothing special, we really aren't unique, and that it's arrogance to think we are anything special, especially to claim we are made in god's image.

Ok, but if God is saying we are made in his image, it wouldn't be arrogance on my part. I don't think anybody would come up with that claim on their own, I certainly wouldn't have.

 

[blü 2]

What do you think?

I think,

first, a collision with another universe is only one hypothesis,

second, I don't know how such a collision can be imagined, but there seems to be an inference that it's like two bubbles colliding (in how many spatial dimensions?) and surviving intact while a transfer of energy occurs , and

three, that's easily the most fascinating possibility, though not necessarily the ultimate winner.

So the conclusion is, stay tuned.

Many thanks for the links.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Ok, but if God is saying we are made in his image, it wouldn't be arrogance on my part. I don't think anybody would come up with that claim on their own, I certainly wouldn't have.

It doesn't take much of an imagination to see that people would claim this. That we look like god, it's found in many religions. It's not god saying we look like him, it is arrogant humans claiming we are made in god's image and likeness.

 

[DavidFirth]

But that's simply a parable, not statements about reality. Since truth is conformity with reality, the statements are not examples of truth, nor capable of being true.

 

[missmay]

It doesn't take much of an imagination to see that people would claim this. That we look like god, it's found in many religions. It's not god saying we look like him, it is arrogant humans claiming we are made in god's image and likeness.

Yes, perhaps some people might think this way, but the religions you are talking about teach that we are our own gods, or can attain our own Godship without any kind of genuine dependency on a creator who made us. They teach that we can do this on our own, completely and in this lifetime, without the need for repentance of our sin to a creator or the need of a savior that took the place of sin for us. There's a big difference from being made in the image of a Creator that requires repentance and dependency on him (the Holy Spirit ) to change/regenerate you through his power, than believing that we can attain this complete holiness on our own.
Those are the religions that promote arrogance. By realizing we can't attain spiritual perfection on our own, we are being in our most humble state.

 

[blü 2]

.

So you have no useful concept of 'truth', no test to tell you whether something may be true or not, right?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

but the religions you are talking about teach that we are our own gods, or can attain our own Godship without any kind of genuine dependency on a creator who made us.

The only religions that teach that are the Left Handed Path religions. Not too many gods where keen on the idea of us mortals being gods. Prometheus elevated us, and Zeus punished him to have his liver eaten out every day, to be regenerated and killed again, forever and ever. Ammit would have eaten your soul, and to the Egyptians the only human who was a god was the Pharaoh. In traditional Japanese lore, the only god-human was the Emperor, and for others there simply was no obtaining an equal status.

 

[missmay]

The only religions that teach that are the Left Handed Path religions. Not too many gods where keen on the idea of us mortals being gods. Prometheus elevated us, and Zeus punished him to have his liver eaten out every day, to be regenerated and killed again, forever and ever. Ammit would have eaten your soul, and to the Egyptians the only human who was a god was the Pharaoh. In traditional Japanese lore, the only god-human was the Emperor, and for others there simply was no obtaining an equal status.

I'm not really sure what your trying to say . I'm not trying to be offensive, I'm just trying to get a better idea of what you're saying and how it relates to what we've been discussing.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm not really sure what your trying to say . I'm not trying to be offensive, I'm just trying to get a better idea of what you're saying and how it relates to what we've been discussing.

I'm saying I wasn't talking about religions that try to say you can achieve godhood, and I gave some examples of religions that involve mortals knowing their place as mere mortals. Religions like Satanism and Setism promote the idea of self-godhood, but those religions are of a minority when compared to religions that do not teach the idea of godhood, and probably somewhere have a rule, story, or teaching that is strongly against it.

 

[missmay]

I'm saying I wasn't talking about religions that try to say you can achieve godhood, and I gave some examples of religions that involve mortals knowing their place as mere mortals. Religions like Satanism and Setism promote the idea of self-godhood, but those religions are of a minority when compared to religions that do not teach the idea of godhood, and probably somewhere have a rule, story, or teaching that is strongly against it.

Yes, I got the first part about the left handed path religions, but I was confused about the rest because I guess I don't view them as religions, but only folk lore/ mythology. How can you compare folklore or even worshipping a Pharoah or emperor who was a tyranical human being, to the creator of the universe? The people who were under rule of these guys had to do what was dictated to them, they had no choice unless they were ok with losing their lives over it. In fact, im betting that many of these people who "knew their place", didnt view these dictators as true gods at all ( I'm sure there was some definate eye rolling going on when they could get away with it). It was these dictator's massive egos that demanded that the people worship them or that they would be killed. They were sinful fallen men who were self deluded and in a position of great power that's all.
What does the Bible mean that we are created in God's image, or likeness? No one really knows. I get the impression from scripture that it has less to do with his physical attributes compared to his mental/emotional /spiritual attributes. If so, I just can't see why arrogance would be an issue, especially if we (Christians) know that in our sinful human state that we fall completely short of his holiness.

 

[arthra]

Well the topic as posted has this statement: "Vastness of Space Suggests There Is No Almighty Creator"
I was curious what I would find in Baha'i sources along these lines and this is what I came up with:

We were awakened one night, ere break of day, by Mirza Abdu'l-Vahhab-i-Shirazi, who was bound with Us to the same chains. He had left Kazimayn and followed Us to Tihran, where he was arrested and thrown into prison.

He asked Us whether We were awake, and proceeded to relate to Us his dream.

'I have this night,' he said, 'been soaring into a space of infinite vastness and beauty. I seemed to be uplifted on wings that carried me wherever I desired to go. A feeling of rapturous delight filled my soul. I flew in the midst of that immensity with a swiftness and ease that I cannot describe.' 'To-day,' We replied, 'it will be your turn to sacrifice yourself for this Cause. May you remain firm and steadfast to the end. You will then find yourself soaring in that same limitless space of which you dreamed, traversing with the same ease and swiftness the realm of immortal sovereignty, and gazing with that same rapture upon the Infinite Horizon.'

(Shoghi Effendi, The Dawn-Breakers, p. 633)

 

[oldbadger]

Ha..I thought about that afterwards (in re: to your emoticon). ..but you have to admit, his round eyes can be taken as more than just a smile. Maybe this choice of emoticon tells me about you too. (You like to keep people guessing??..just teasing (maybe..).

Me?
I just like smiling.

Hmmm, Christianity makes much more sense to me. It doesn't make any sense to me that an intelligent deity/creator who created humans to be able to love, grieve, want to have meaning in life etc. would be that impersonal. I mean with all of the struggles and pain in life..it would seem even more cruel than just impersonal to make us this way in a world that can be so harsh at times, to simply sit back and say "Well, I made you..isn't that eneough? "

My Deity is everything, and why some folks think that this deity would select one species out of billions, living on a planet amongst trillions, is just mind-boggling.

We cannot get on with all of real life until we stop worrying about what is going to happen to us after death. I am content with the will of chaotic fate.

 

[missmay]

Me?
I just like smiling.

My Deity is everything, and why some folks think that this deity would select one species out of billions, living on a planet amongst trillions, is just mind-boggling.

We cannot get on with all of real life until we stop worrying about what is going to happen to us after death. I am content with the will of chaotic fate.

Wait..your winking...I could've sworn that was a wink..

Your Deity is everything? But what exactly is he? Wouldn't it just make more sense to not believe in a deity at all? Your deity doesn't measure up with reality. It created a universe with people, animals, living things with emotion, the ability to choose good or evil, who can care about eachother and support eachother. The animals do this as well. But your deity just sits back and let's everybody guess who he is, doesn't comfort anyone in their pain, doesnt give any kind of hope. Doesn't give answers of any kind. No offense, but you might as well just worship yourself and your own ideas. Your deity does not measure up with the realities of this world.
And you don't know there are a billion other species out there. Maybe these other galaxies are occupied by celestial beings that the Bible talks about ( I don't know if they would be considered a species or not), or unused space for heavens etc. These galaxies could be fueling life here on earth. These are guesses of course, but may be since the Bible talks about different heavens etc (which is mind boggling).

I'm not worried about death or the afterlife at all. My destiny is secure, and this frees me up in this current life. But my message is of hope, and it would be selfish of me to not share it.

 

[DavidFirth]

So you have no useful concept of 'truth', no test to tell you whether something may be true or not, right?

Jesus Christ is truth. All other things are greatly inferior this.