Vatican Blasts Trans Surgery, Surogacy, Etc

[Kathryn]

And? We're talking about an organization that wants to point its finger at those doing no harm to anyone and say this behavior (that according to some here the Pope shouldn't evem speak on it because it doesn't involve him) is a violation of human dignity, yet the Vatican itself does not have a history of leading by example, and that includes today. The Vatican has slaughtered countless people. The Vatican is responsible for AIDs being such a problem in Africa. Kill them all and let god sort them out comes from a Papal edict. They locked a man up in house for seeing things for how they really are and speaking the truth. They supported the Nazis. Amd today they help protect some of the worst our species has to offer, enables them to hurt again and shields them from legal consequences.

Please. Stop it. You're embarrassing yourself.

 

[Revoltingest]

Like I said, show me some recent articles or links.

Perhaps later. I'd expect the Church to
have worked on curbing sexual assault
by priests, but I don't know the extent.

Back to the OP...
"....gender-affirming surgery and surrogacy as grave violations of human dignity, putting them on par with abortion and euthanasia as practices that it said reject God’s plan for human life."

Do you agree with the Pope's characterization
of those things as he does?
Remember now....6 of 9 SCOTUS justices are
Catholic. Their record, & the Pope's decrees
sure do look like the imposition of their (your)
religion upon the unwilling & unbelieving.

 

[Brian2]

And? We're talking about an organization that wants to point its finger at those doing no harm to anyone and say this behavior (that according to some here the Pope shouldn't evem speak on it because it doesn't involve him) is a violation of human dignity, .......................

The Pope was not attacking trans people but was attacking the gender theory and gender affirming surgery, which imo is the opposite to affirming the worth of a person as they are.

Its not anti-Catholic to say the hypocrites need to mind their own business. Even Jeses tells them to shut up and tend to the beam in their own eye.

So are all Catholics hypocrites because of what some have done?
That means we all must be hypocrites because of what some people have done in the groups we belong to.

 

[Kathryn]

Perhaps later. I'd expect the Church to
have worked on curbing sexual assault
by priests, but I don't know the extent.

Back to the OP...
"....gender-affirming surgery and surrogacy as grave violations of human dignity, putting them on par with abortion and euthanasia as practices that it said reject God’s plan for human life."

Do you agree with the Pope's characterization
of those things as he does?
Remember now....6 of 9 SCOTUS justices are
Catholic. Their record, & the Pope's decrees
sure do look like the imposition of their (your)
religion upon the unwilling & unbelieving.

I often find myself in opposition to the Pope but he's really old so we'll see I guess.

 

[ppp]

Lol, okay. If you were ever down and out, homeless and needed help, you wouldn't be saying that. Where's the atheist, humanist and antitheist charities helping destitute people? That's right, they don't exist.

Tanzanian Children’s Fund
Doctors without Borders
American Red Cross
Charity Beyond Belief.
The Satanic Temple (think before you speak here. because you are wrong)
Engineers Without Borders
UNICEF

 

[ppp]

The Pope was not attacking trans people but was attacking the gender theory and gender affirming surgery, which imo is the opposite to affirming the worth of a person as they are.

The pope is opposing the science and thus attacking trans folk. As are you.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The Pope was not attacking trans people but was attacking the gender theory and gender affirming surgery, which imo is the opposite to affirming the worth of a person as they are.

Yes, he said what we do is an affront to human dignity. That is an attack on trans people, amd given his position helps to fuel transphobia.
And as we've also seen, it helps to weight to the idea that children born to ways other than normal ways are somehow aren't human.

So are all Catholics hypocrites because of what some have done?
That means we all must be hypocrites because of what some people have done in the groups we belong to.

I have not said all Catholics, and in fact have frequently specified the Vatican. I'm aware many Catholics are appalled over the Vaticans behavior. I'm not blaming those, I'm blaming those who enabled destruction.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm not saying this.

Yeah. I know. You also have no authority or power in the Catholic church, your word probably wouldn't sway Vatican politics.

Please. Stop it. You're embarrassing yourself.

No, it's called venting and ranting because they want to harshly judge me and so many others who have harmed no one while they themselves have a history that suggests they might be projecting a collective guilty conscious from the all the death and destruction they have either directly caused or supported, with a brutality not too unlike the Ottoman Empire.
If the Vatican were Muslim instead of Christian Uncle Sam probably would have labeled the Vatican a terrorist state anr bombed it into oblivion over the child molestation thing amd the media would tell us they are primitive, backwards savages who haven't changed muchsince their genocide against many Native American cultures (because we love them when it conveniences us).
Many consider the Vatican a state. It gets to be called out for its crap.

 

[Heyo]

Interesting. I can't think of any large scale charities where I used to live (just moved, sorry) that are secular, but I can name charity after charity that was started by a church! Maybe it's area specific or size specific.

You know what - I just thought of one that I give to regularly. Carter Bloodcare. I give platelets regularly in memory of my dad. I looked them up and they are basically just in Texas.

Less God, Less Giving?

Religion and generosity feed each other in fascinating ways

www.philanthropyroundtable.org

Are they church based? That's one of the things I had difficulties in determining. Most of the time, the name doesn't reveal if a charity is secular or religious. The rating organizations don't list it, and even the websites are suspiciously silent.

 

[Heyo]

Honestly lol. You need to come to Europe. No-one gives a flying **** what the Vatican has to say. I have no clue where you guys are taking this garbage from.

Obviously the Vatican believes what is has is universal truth, that's the whole point of the religion. They have no means or concept of pushing it on non-RCs, they can't even make their own followers comply.

This idea is lala land. It's an anti-Catholic rabid fantasy.

The RCC has power, they're just smart enough not to use it openly, because that will ultimately be the end of it.
E.g., the RCC is immensely rich. If they wanted, they could put some of that money into lobbying, but they don't.

 

[Heyo]

About ten percent of priests are child molesters. About ten percent of teachers are child molesters. About ten percent of Protestant ministers are child molesters. About ten percent of the population are child molesters. It happens. I'm sorry it does. However, not being a child molester myself, I'm not sure there's much I can do about it, other than try to protect my grand kids.

Non sequitur. It's not about the molesters, it's about the systemic protection of them. When you are a teacher, or in the public, you are more likely to be prosecuted. When you are a Protestant, you may have some protection, but only the RCC was and is of the opinion that their priests should not face secular prosecution.

 

[Heyo]

2) He addresses the % of group populations who
molest children, but not the number molested
per perpetrator. Given the Catholic Church's
history of protecting & enabling molesters, it
could be that priests molest greater numbers.

I wonder how he determined the percentage of molesters among priests? When the RCC has protected them from prosecution, would they give an honest answer about their numbers?

 

[Debater Slayer]

Where are all the pro-Catholics, exactly?

RF is a liberal hive and that means it tends to pile on conservative Catholics. It's saddening.

I'm not sure whether the lower support for conservative Catholicism compared to some other religions and Christian denominations is due to the fact that most of the RF membership is from the US and the UK, where Catholics are a minority of all Christians in both countries, but I suspect that might be a large part of it.

In many other threads about various topics related to Christianity, I see a considerable presence of conservative Christian viewpoints, but most of those viewpoints tend to be from denominations other than Catholicism.

 

[Revoltingest]

I often find myself in opposition to the Pope but he's really old so we'll see I guess.

You must be one of those conversationalists.
We should be bickering tooth & nail on RF.
What are you.....mature?

 

[Revoltingest]

I wonder how he determined the percentage of molesters among priests? When the RCC has protected them from prosecution, would they give an honest answer about their numbers?

Aye, in an opinion piece in mainstream media,
we expect detail to be absent. But the article
smacked of some personal opinion being
presented as fact. And then he defeated
one of his own claims.
The whole piece seems to be a defense of
the Church using statistics to say "Hey, priests
are statistically better than most people."
One could find that really offensive.
A victim might feel like taking up baseball,
Nicky Santoro style.
(Sorry...Just watched Casino again.)

 

[Rival]

I'm not sure whether the lower support for conservative Catholicism compared to some other religions and Christian denominations is due to the fact that most of the RF membership is from the US and the UK, where Catholics are a minority of all Christians in both countries, but I suspect that might be a large part of it.

In many other threads about various topics related to Christianity, I see a considerable presence of conservative Christian viewpoints, but most of those viewpoints tend to be from denominations other than Catholicism.

There is a large Catholic minority in the US though, and they're one of the largest churchgoing denominations here in the UK. I think the issue is that many of them tend to stick to Catholic fora. In my attempt to find a forum where Catholics and Protestants get along in oecumenical dialogue, I found there is no such place; it seems they consciously self-segregate. So I think it's more the fact that Protestants are more likely to seek debate and evangelisation than RCs are.

 

[Yerda]

Speaking of anti- Catholics, I am watching The Tudors again, which is very interesting.

I don't suppose you've read Hillary Mantel's Cromwell series of historical novels?

 

[Kathryn]

I don't suppose you've read Hillary Mantel's Cromwell series of historical novels?

I actually have! They were terrific! I love the author.

 

[Kathryn]

You must be one of those conversationalists.
We should be bickering tooth & nail on RF.
What are you.....mature?

That's a nice way of putting it.

 

[Kathryn]

Non sequitur. It's not about the molesters, it's about the systemic protection of them. When you are a teacher, or in the public, you are more likely to be prosecuted. When you are a Protestant, you may have some protection, but only the RCC was and is of the opinion that their priests should not face secular prosecution.

Is that why a priest from my former diocese is serving a life sentence for sexual assault of a minor? I mean, he should be. (It was a 14 year old girl, not a boy, for the record.) Anyway, he was defrocked so I guess technically he is no longer a priest. I dunno, call me crazy but I think he should have been and should have also had the book thrown at him (which was). I already posted the link so I won't do so again.