Vedic Period, Pre-Vedic Period and Post-Vedic Period

[paarsurrey]

Because life was easy here. The physical conditions were not harsh as in Afghanistan or Central Asia. Then there were scythian tribes pushing Aryans south. There was no fight with the locals. They migrated peacefully. And these few people later merged into Hinduism and started worshiping the local Gods. Why would there be a war. Perhaps, I am also of a mixed Aryan-local descent, and I am a Hindu. My people, the 'Kambojas', lived around Kabul or North-East of it. India with its huge population does not even notice the entry of a few hundred thousand. Even in the present times, tens of millions Bangladeshis have entered India (perhaps some 20 or 30 million). Has it made any difference to us?

Didn't the locals put garlands in the necks of the Aryans?
Later when the cousins of the Aryans the Greeks and Macedonians, under Alexander came from the same root to meet them, the Aryans were not as courteous as the Dravidian locals were. The Aryans were however noble whatever they did, their label protected them. Right? Please
Regards

 

[shivsomashekhar]

Didn't the locals put garlands in the necks of the Aryans?

?

Later when the cousins of the Aryans the Greeks and Macedonians, under Alexander came from the same root to meet them, the Aryans were not as courteous as the Dravidian...

1. Alexander did not come to "meet" anyone. He was a conqueror, a megalomaniac who left a trail of destruction behind him. In today's world, he would be executed for crimes against humanity. Why would anyone be courteous to him - unless out of fear or weakness?

2. it is wrong to assume that there were only Dravidians in India before the arrival of the Aryans. India has always been a migration destination and just like numerous tribes moved in after the Aryans, many of them would have come in before too. The Aryans were only one such group or they too migrated in multiple waves.

 

[paarsurrey]

My interest is not in the history of Aryans. My interest is in the Veda/Yajurveda. What the people of the Vedic period believed in, their creeds from Veda, their religious thoughts from Veda? What was added to them in the Post-Vedic period and why? In what region of the world Veda was compiled to ascertain that from the Veda itself and why it was compiled in Sanskrit which was not the language of the locals of India? Why did the Vedic people divide humanity in classes? All from the Veda/Yajurveda itself. To support one's viewpoint please quote from Veda, if none of one's liking translation is available, please translate yourself. Please
Regards

 

[shivsomashekhar]

My interest is in the Veda/Yajurveda. What the people of the Vedic period believed in, their creeds from Veda, their religious thoughts from Veda?

Since you claim to have read the YV, you should be able to answer your own question.

What was added to them in the Post-Vedic period and why?

Nothing was added.

In what region of the world Veda was compiled to ascertain that from the Veda itself and why it was compiled in Sanskrit which was not the language of the locals of India?

Unlike the Quran, the Veda is accepted as eternal, without a beginning. So, the questions of language, location, time and authorship become irrelevant.

Why did the Vedic people divide humanity in classes?

The Veda is unauthored and so, there is no why. The Varnas are without beginning.

 

[Aupmanyav]

But what I'm getting at is that the Vedic Period is certainly not "prehistoric" as people think of prehistoric .. that means that the culture was older, yes, but not as old as one is claiming.

Do we have the history of Ioninians, Hittites, Mittani, Mehrgarh, Tocharians? If we do not know that, then it automatically becomes pre-historic. Pre-history is dated either by archaeological finds or by literary mention. As I have been mentioning all this while, the Vedas and Zoroastrian scriptures mention what is perhaps really really old, when Aryans lived in the sub-Arctic region, thousands of years ago:

“The Zoroastrian scriptures are still more explicit. In the Vendidad, Fargards V, 10, and VIII, 4, a question is raised how the worshipper of Mazda should act, when a death takes place in a house when the summer has passed and the winter has come; and Ahura Mazda answers, “In such cases a Kata (ditch) should be made in every house and there the lifeless body should be allowed to lie for two nights, or for three nights, or for a month long, until the birds begin to fly, the plants to grow, the floods to flow, and the wind to dry up the
water from off the earth.”

Considering the fact that the dead body of a worshipper of Mazda is required to be ex posed to the sun before it is consigned to birds, the only reason for keeping the dead body in the house for one month seems to be that it was a month of darkness. The description of birds beginning to fly, and the floods to flow, etc., reminds one of the description of the dawn in the Rig-Veda, and it is quite probable that the expressions here denote the same phenomenon as in the Rig-Veda, In fact they indicate a winter of total darkness during which the corpse is directed to be kept in the house, to be exposed to the sun on the first breaking of the dawn after the long night.”
"BG Tilak, "Arctic Home in Vedas"

 

[Aupmanyav]

Btw, completely in the realm of science-fantasy (not even fiction, but fantasy ) I would love to see some things from around that time:
The Proto-Indo-Europeans, their culture and language.
The Indus Valley Civilization, and put to rest what dad-gum language they did speak.
Even further back, just how in blue blazes India did get populated.
These are questions that as a nerd I need answered, dagnabbit!

Wikipedia is your first friend.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-Europeans
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Europe_(archaeology)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peopling_of_India
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indus_Valley_Civilisation#Language. I believe the Harappans spoke the languages that are spoken in Punjab and Sindh today. I do not see much problem in language, the problem is about script. What hieroglyphics represented what consonant, vowelor idea? In other regions of the world multi-language tablets or steles were found. We do not have that for the Indus valley civilization. I hope something will be found in Dilmun (Bahrein) where the Indians traded, till then it is all speculation.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Didn't the locals put garlands in the necks of the Aryans?
Later when the cousins of the Aryans the Greeks and Macedonians, under Alexander came from the same root to meet them, the Aryans were not as courteous as the Dravidian locals were. The Aryans were however noble whatever they did, their label protected them.

Oh, we put garlands even around the necks cows, dogs and snakes. There is no problem about that.

Yes, there were mixed marriages. An early example is the union between Sage Parashara and Satyavati which engendered Sage Vedavyasa.
Yes, Greeks/Macedonians were brother Aryans but they parted before 2500 BC, and the relationship was forgotten. There is only one incident mentioned in Srimad Bhagawat Purana, when it says the eldest son of King Yayati became a Yavana (Ionian). I think that means that he migrated West. Kings and emperors fight for dominion, there is nothing new in this. That was also the reason for the Battle of Ten Kings mentioned in RigVeda. The attackers wanted to take over an established and prosperous kingdom and nearly succeeded in that. Alas, their forces were defeated by floods in River Ravi. They chose a wrong time to attack the Tritsu King Sudas, the rainy season.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Since you claim to have read the YV, you should be able to answer your own question.

And , you desire to write an abridged version of Vedas for Hindus. What a noble idea indeed!

What was added to them in the Post-Vedic period and why? In what region of the world Veda was compiled to ascertain that from the Veda itself and why it was compiled in Sanskrit which was not the language of the locals of India? Why did the Vedic people divide humanity in classes? All from the Veda/Yajurveda itself. To support one's viewpoint please quote from Veda, if none of one's liking translation is available, please translate yourself.

The belief of Aryans underwent a wholesale change. They retained the Vedas, but added to it the worship of local deities, came to practice 'ahimsa' and 'meditation'. By the time Vedas were compiled, the locals had become conversant with Sanskrit. Compilation was done by a sage of mixed origin. Society is divided everywhere for some reason or the other. Even in Muslims, there are Syeds, Ansaris, Qureshis and so on. The Aryan division of the society (among Indian Aryans as well as Zoroastrians) was based on profession. Priests, warriors, traders and agriculturists and wage-workers, which is quite natural. We are not doing an academic debate and it takes time and expertise to collect that kind of information, so I will limit myself to what Lord Krishna said in BhagawadGita:

"Chātur-varṇyaḿ mayā sṛiṣhṭaḿ, guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ;
tasya kartāram api māḿ, viddhy akartāram avyayam." BhaawadGita 4.13

I have created the four divisions of human society according to the three modes of material nature and the work associated with them. Although I am the creator of this system, you should know that I am yet the non-doer, being unchangeable.

Jai Sri Krishna.

 

[paarsurrey]

And , you desire to write an abridged version of Vedas for Hindus. What a noble idea indeed!

The concise and compressed Veda will not be only for the peoples of Hinduism religions but for anybody and every body in the world who loves to read the holy scriptures of any religions.
Regards

 

[Aupmanyav]

Nice idea, but one should not tilt at windmills. We should know our limits.

 

[paarsurrey]

Nice idea, but one should not tilt at windmills. We should know our limits.

What limits and who sets them for one? Please
Regards

 

[Aupmanyav]

What limits and who sets them for one?

Knowledge and intelligence.

 

[paarsurrey]

Unlike the Quran, the Veda is accepted as eternal, without a beginning. So, the questions of language, location, time and authorship become irrelevant.

Does Veda claim it? Please quote from Veda/Yajurveda
Regards

 

[shivsomashekhar]

Does Veda claim it? Please quote from Veda/Yajurveda
Regards

The Veda does not have a start date to it - nor an end date. Hence, it is eternal.

You will have to read up on Indian epistemology and the concept of apaurusheyatva (unauthoredness) to understand the concept. Without this, you are just wasting your time on this topic.

 

[paarsurrey]

The Veda does not have a start date to it - nor an end date. Hence, it is eternal.
You will have to read up on Indian epistemology and the concept of apaurusheyatva (unauthoredness) to understand the concept. Without this, you are just wasting your time on this topic.

Sorry, the claim and reason must be from the Veda itself, if it is a living Scripture, else it is already dead as happened to the Sanskrit language in which it is supposed to be originally. Please quote from the Veda/Yajurveda.
Regards

 

[shivsomashekhar]

Sorry, the claim and reason must be from the Veda itself, if it is a living Scripture, else it is already dead as happened to the Sanskrit language in which it is supposed to be originally. Please quote from the Veda/Yajurveda.
Regards

Nope. You do not understand how it works. You have to move past your simple world to understand epistemology and unauthoredness. Without doing that, you are trying to view Hinduism through your semitic lens and are just wasting your time.

 

[paarsurrey]

Nope. You do not understand how it works. You have to move past your simple world to understand epistemology and unauthoredness. Without doing that, you are trying to view Hinduism through your semitic lens and are just wasting your time.

I am told that Hinduism is not a religion, it is a conglomerate of many religions. My interest is in Veda/Yajurveda, not in Hinduism religions which are not even mentioned in Veda/Yajurveda. Does Veda/Yajurveda mention Hinduism? Please quote from Veda/Yajurveda if it mentions Hinduism. Kindly
Regards

 

[shivsomashekhar]

I am told that Hinduism is not a religion, it is a conglomerate of many religions. My interest is in Veda/Yajurveda, not in Hinduism religions which are not even mentioned in Veda/Yajurveda. Does Veda/Yajurveda mention Hinduism? Please quote from Veda/Yajurveda if it mentions Hinduism. Kindly
Regards

Your interest *is* in Hinduism, which is why you are interested in the YV.

Without an interest in Hinduism, there is no reason for you to be spending all this time on the Veda.

 

[paarsurrey]

The Veda does not have a start date to it - nor an end date. Hence, it is eternal.
You will have to read up on Indian epistemology and the concept of apaurusheyatva (unauthoredness) to understand the concept. Without this, you are just wasting your time on this topic.

In that sense every inanimate thing has no start date or an end date inscribed/engraved on it. So what is the peculiarity of Veda, then? Please
Anybody, please
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

The Veda does not have a start date to it - nor an end date. Hence, it is eternal.
You will have to read up on Indian epistemology and the concept of apaurusheyatva (unauthoredness) to understand the concept. Without this, you are just wasting your time on this topic.

One may like to read post #56 in another thread but very much related to this one. Please do read it as it proves that Veda/Yajurveda was never eternal. Right? Please
Regards