Vegetarianism

[huajiro]

What do you think of Vegetarianism?

 

[Green Gaia]

Are you wanting just a Hindu perspective on it?

 

[huajiro]

Actually, I just put it here because I am interested in people's view of it, but especially the Hindu's, because many of them are Vegetarian

 

[Ardhanariswar]

cept me! lol. im only veggietarian on thursdays and fridays because they are auspicious according to my astrology horoscope.
and im veggitarian on special holy holidays and such. last week, there was the annual navaratri, for 9 days and the next day, we are veggitarian.

only sages and yogis and gurus do fasting. or people like ghandi.

i kno some hindus who eat meat, i know a lot who dont.

basically, not eating meat follows the principle of Ahimsa, non voilence. by eating, we obviously commit violence to some life or another, but not so much to plants as meat from animals. anything with eyes are meat. i consider egg and fish as a meat. i dont know, it just is! lol...

its a very interpretive religion, you follow your own path.

 

[huajiro]

I am going to quit eating all meat for the rest of my life on my son's birthday 11/6...that is why the subject is interesting me so much at this time. I went about 5 years without it, and started doing it again because of my ex-wife. It isn't easy to have a relationship with a carnivore when you don't eat meat. I am sick of being a hypocrite, I feel guilty every time I eat meat. It is a big step for me, but I am going to jump into it.

I did the same thing with alcohol and cigarettes 2 years ago on my son's birthday. I promised him that I would quit for life, and it has worked. Now it is meat, and soda.

Wish me luck.

 

[Ardhanariswar]

Good Luck!

 

[godischange]

Pretty cool. I think vegitarianism is the way to go. Good luck with it. My mom was a vegitarian untill she started competing in her bodybuilding contests. It's hard to get 200 grams of protein when you don't eat meat. I want to take the jump but I have NO WILLPOWER! So I'm taking it in stages. Cut out the meats I eat the least of first, then take up another protein source, and do it again untill I don't need meat anymore. I have a bunch of veggies-only friends and I want to join them. I feel like a hypocrite being an animal activist and eating meat. Plus, I hate to know I'm patronising an industry that does harm to living beings.

 

[huajiro]

Good Luck!

Thnx

Pretty cool. I think vegitarianism is the way to go. Good luck with it. My mom was a vegitarian untill she started competing in her bodybuilding contests. It's hard to get 200 grams of protein when you don't eat meat. I want to take the jump but I have NO WILLPOWER! So I'm taking it in stages. Cut out the meats I eat the least of first, then take up another protein source, and do it again untill I don't need meat anymore. I have a bunch of veggies-only friends and I want to join them. I feel like a hypocrite being an animal activist and eating meat. Plus, I hate to know I'm patronising an industry that does harm to living beings.

Why don't you quit with me on the 6th? We can form a non-meat-eating support group

 

[Valjean]

Huajiro. I get the impression you're pretty self-disciplined and determined, so, rather than wishing you luck, may I say congratulations.

May I ask what motivates this decision?

Godischange -- I don't see the problem with getting 200 Gms/day of protein from a vegetarian diet. Even if one ate nothing but, say, broccoli, a 2000 calorie diet (and most bodybuilders eat a lot more than this) would yeild 225 Gms/day.

 

[akshar]

The way i see it, if you want the burden of death of thousands of animals and fungus growing in ur intestines and your heart becoming infected and therefore dying then eat away. The sight of meat makes me sick. If you think isaac newton as a brain the size of a peanut or bigger you would not eat meat because he hted it, so did George bernard shaw, socrates, aristotle. Meat is mentally bad. It is wrong to be veggie just on special days, if ur gonna do dat den you might as well not eat meat at all. By the way fungus grows in your intestines because meat rots realllllllllly fast and our digestive system in long our teeeth are blunt, not sharp. Like lions digestive system and there teeth are carnivourous. We are herbivores.

 

[akshar]

Yeah brocco milk mung beans wheat loads of stuff contain proteins. According to what i have heard, meat protein dont supply protein, the use it up.

 

[Hema]

I'm a vegetarian mainly because of my Hindu faith. Hinduism teaches that all life comes from God and God is present in all living creatures. Regardless of one's religion, consider this...why should we gain happiness out of another creature's suffering? The poor animals suffer and die and then people derive joy from eating them, a joy which lasts but a few minutes but was life itself to some innocent animal. God will bless you abundantly if you stop eating meat. It will improve your karma.
Every day is sacred because every day is a day that God has made. Therefore I advise being vegetarian on all days, not just some. As for the protein, adults need only 4 oz. of protein per day. Peas and beans have more protein than meat, but hear this, vegetarians suffer from kidney problems and arthritis more than non-veges. Why? Because vegetarians wrongly assume that they are not getting enough protein and eat plenty beans etc. and overload their systems with too much protein. God did not intend for people to eat animals. People don't salivate when they see a chicken walking by, but a dog would. We use weapons to kill animals and eat them because we don't have claws to rip open their flesh and eat it raw. Meat causes cancer, heart disease. Bad cholesterol - the LDL cholesterol, comes only from animal and dairy products. Avocadoes etc. have good HDL cholesterol which lowers the bad LDL cholesterol. When you become vegetarian, you take a giant leap closer to God because you are respecting God's spirit in all his creatures.

 

[akshar]

I'm a vegetarian mainly because of my Hindu faith. Hinduism teaches that all life comes from God and God is present in all living creatures. Regardless of one's religion, consider this...why should we gain happiness out of another creature's suffering? The poor animals suffer and die and then people derive joy from eating them, a joy which lasts but a few minutes but was life itself to some innocent animal. God will bless you abundantly if you stop eating meat. It will improve your karma.
Every day is sacred because every day is a day that God has made. Therefore I advise being vegetarian on all days, not just some. As for the protein, adults need only 4 oz. of protein per day. Peas and beans have more protein than meat, but hear this, vegetarians suffer from kidney problems and arthritis more than non-veges. Why? Because vegetarians wrongly assume that they are not getting enough protein and eat plenty beans etc. and overload their systems with too much protein. God did not intend for people to eat animals. People don't salivate when they see a chicken walking by, but a dog would. We use weapons to kill animals and eat them because we don't have claws to rip open their flesh and eat it raw. Meat causes cancer, heart disease. Bad cholesterol - the LDL cholesterol, comes only from animal and dairy products. Avocadoes etc. have good HDL cholesterol which lowers the bad LDL cholesterol. When you become vegetarian, you take a giant leap closer to God because you are respecting God's spirit in all his creatures.

I'm with you there as 100%

 

[AbuQuteiba]

"Vegetarianism" By Dr. Zakir Naik

‘Vegetarianism’ is now a movement theworld over. Many even associate it with animal rights. Indeed, a large number of people consider the consumption of meat and other non-vegetarian products to be a violation of animal rights.
Islam enjoins mercy and compassion for all living creatures. At the same time Islam maintains that Allah has created the earth and its wondrous flora and fauna for the benefit of mankind. It is upto mankind to use every resource in this world judiciously, as a niyamat (Divine blessing) and amanat (trust) from Allah.

Let us look at various other aspects of this argument.
1. A Muslim can be a pure vegetarian

A Muslim can be a very good Muslim despite being a pure vegetarian. It is not compulsory for a Muslim to have non-vegetarian food.

2. Qur’an permits Muslims to have non-vegetarian food

The Qur’an, however permits a Muslim to have non-vegetarian food. The following Qur’anic verses are proof of this fact:
"O ye who believe! Fulfil (all) obligations. Lawful unto you (for food) are all four-footed animals with the exceptions named."
[Al-Qur’an 5:1]
"And cattle Hehas created for you (men): from them Ye derive warmth, and numerous benefits, And of their (meat) ye eat."
[Al-Qur’an 16:5]

"And in cattle (too) ye have an instructive example: From within their bodies We produce (milk) for you to drink; there are, in them, (besides), numerous (other) benefits for you; and of their (meat) ye eat."
[Al-Qur’an 23:21]
3. Meat is nutritious and rich in complete protein

Non-vegetarian food is a good source of excellent protein. It contains biologically complete protein i.e. all the 8 essential amino acid that are not synthesized by the body and should be supplied in the diet. Meat also contains iron, vitamin B1 and niacin.

4. Humans have Omnivorous set of teeth

If you observe the teeth of herbivorous animals like the cow, goat and sheep, you will find something strikingly similar in all of them. All these animals have a set of flat teeth i.e. suited for herbivorous diet. If you observe the set of teeth of the carnivorous animals like the lion, tiger, or leopard, they all have a set of pointed teeth i.e. suited for a carnivorous diet. If you analyze the set of teeth of humans, you find that they have flat teeth as well as pointed teeth. Thus they have teeth suited for both herbivorous as well as carnivorous food i.e. they are omnivorous. One may ask, if Almighty God wanted humans to have only vegetables, why did He provide us also with pointed teeth? It is logical that He expected us to need and to have both vegetarian as well as non-vegetarian food.

5. Human beings can digest both vegetarian and non-vegetarian food

The digestive system of herbivorous animals can digest only vegetables. The digestive system of carnivorous animals can digest only meat. But the digestive system of humans can digest both vegetarian and non-vegetarian food. If Almighty God wanted us to have only vegetables then why did He give us a digestive system that can digest both vegetarian as well as non-vegetarian food?

 

[AbuQuteiba]

(CONTINUATION)

6. Hindu scriptures give permission to have non-vegetarian food

• There are many Hindus who are strictly vegetarian. They think it is against their religion to consume non-vegetarian food. But the true fact is that the Hindu scriptures permit a person to have meat. The scriptures mention Hindu sages and saints consuming non-vegetarian food.
  
  
• It is mentioned in Manu Smruti, the law book of Hindus, in chapter 5 verse 30
  
  "The eater who eats the flesh of those to be eaten does nothing bad, even if he does it day after day, for God himself created some to be eaten and some to be eater."
  
  
• Again next verse of Manu Smruti, that is, chapter 5 verse 31 says
  
  "Eating meat is right for the sacrifice, this is traditionally known as a rule of the gods."
  
• Further in Manu Smruti chapter 5 verse 39 and 40 says
  
  "God himself created sacrificial animals for sacrifice, ...., therefore killing in a sacrifice is not killing."
  
• Mahabharata Anushashan Parva chapter 88 narrates the discussion between Dharmaraj Yudhishthira and Pitamah Bhishma about what food one should offer to Pitris (ancestors) during the Shraddha (ceremony of dead) to keep them satisfied. Paragraph reads as follows:
  "Yudhishthira said, "O thou of great puissance, tell me what that object is which, if dedicated to the Pitiris (dead ancestors), become inexhaustible! WhatHavi, again, (if offered) lasts for all time? What, indeed, is that which (if presented) becomes eternal?"
  "Bhishma said, "Listen to me, O Yudhishthira, what those Havis are which persons conversant with the rituals of the Shraddha (the ceremony of dead) regard as suitable in view of Shraddha and what the fruits are that attach to each. With sesame seeds and rice and barely and Masha and water and roots and fruits, if given at Shraddhas, the pitris, O king, remain gratifiedfor the period of a month. With fishes offered at Shraddhas, the pitris remain gratified for a period of two months. With the mutton they remain gratified for three months and with the hare for four months, with the flesh of the goat for five months, with the bacon (meat of pig) for six months, and with the flesh of birds for seven. With venison obtained from those deer thatare called Prishata, they remaingratified for eight months, and with that obtained from the Ruru for nine months, and with the meat of Gavaya for ten months, With the meat of the bufffalo their gratification lasts for eleven months. With beef presented at the Shraddha, their gratification, it is said , lasts for a full year. Payasa mixed with ghee is as much acceptable to the pitris as beef. With the meat of Vadhrinasa (a large bull) the gratification of pitris lasts for twelve years. The flesh of rhinoceros, offered to the pitris on anniversaries of the lunar days on which they died, becomes inexhaustible. The potherb called Kalaska, the petals of kanchana flower, and meat of (red) goat also, thus offered, prove inexhaustible.
  So but natural if you want to keep your ancestors satisfied forever, you should serve them the meat of red goat.

7. Hinduism was influenced by other religions

Though Hindu Scriptures permit its followers to have non-vegetarian food, many Hindus adopted the vegetarian system because they were influenced by other religions like Jainism.

8. Even plants have life

Certain religions have adopted pure vegetarianism as a dietary law because they are totally against the killing of living creatures. If a person can survive without killing any living creature, I would be the first person to adopt such a way of life. In the past people thought plants were lifeless. Today it is a universal fact that even plants have life. Thus their logic of not killing living creatures is not fulfilled even by being a pure vegetarian.

9. Even plants can feel pain


They further argue that plants cannot feel pain, therefore killing a plant is a lesser crime as compared to killing an animal. Today science tells us that even plants can feel pain. But the cry of the plant cannot be heard by the human being. This is due to the inability of the human ear to hear sounds that are not in the audible range i.e. 20 Hertz to 20,000 Hertz. Anything below and above this range cannot be heard by a human being. A dog can hear up to 40,000 Hertz. Thus there are silent dog whistles that have a frequency of more than 20,000 Hertz and less than 40,000 Hertz. These whistles are only heard by dogs and not by human beings. The dog recognizes the masters whistle and comes to the master. There was research done by a farmer in U.S.A. who invented an instrument which converted the cry of the plant so that it could be heard by human beings. He was able to realize immediately when the plant itself cried for water. Latest researches show that the plants can even feel happy and sad. It can also cry.
10. Killing a living creature with two senses less is not a lesser crime

Once a vegetarian argued his case by saying that plants only have two or three senses while the animals have five senses.
Therefore killing a plant is a lesser crime than killing an animal. Suppose your brother is born deaf and dumb and has two senses less as compared to other human beings. He becomes mature and someone murders him. Would you ask the judge to give the murderer a lesser punishment because your brother has two senses less? In fact you would say that he has killed a masoom, an innocent person, and the judge should give the murderer a greater punishment.
In fact the Qur’an says:

"O ye people! Eat of what is on earth, lawful and good"
[Al-Qur’an 2:168]
11. Over population of cattle

If every human being was a vegetarian, it would lead to overpopulation of cattle in the world, since their reproduction and multiplication is very swift. Allah (swt) in His Divine Wisdom knows how to maintain the balance of His creation appropriately. No wonder He has permitted us to have the meat of the cattle.

12. Cost of meat is reasonable since all aren’t non-vegetarians

I do not mind if some people are pure vegetarians. However they should not condemn non-vegetarians as ruthless. In fact if all Indians become non-vegetarians then the present non-vegetarians would be losers since the prices of meat would rise.

 

[Milind2469]

I believe
1) Hindus can eat meat
2) Those who want to adopt the dharmic path (traditionally brahmins, now anyone who seeks God) should not eat meat, not because it is a hindarance, but to keep mind pure.
3) Long back hindus ate meat, all castes.
4) All humans can eat vegetables. it's natural food.
5) if you have to eat meat, cook it fully and accompany with lots of veg food.
6) human digestion system is not made for non-vegetarian food, but it can digest 'cooked' non-veg food when accompanied with veg food, herbs etc.

 

[AbuQuteiba]

I believe
1) Hindus can eat meat
2) Those who want to adopt the dharmic path (traditionally brahmins, now anyone who seeks God) should not eat meat, not because it is a hindarance, but to keep mind pure.
3) Long back hindus ate meat, all castes.
4) All humans can eat vegetables. it's natural food.
5) if you have to eat meat, cook it fully and accompany with lots of veg food.
6) human digestion system is not made for non-vegetarian food, but it can digest 'cooked' non-veg food when accompanied with veg food, herbs etc.

Hi Milind2469. I only posted that article because i thought it might be of some use to the thread. Never actually thought to discuss people's replies to it, but in your case, i'll make an exception .

I'm not the person to be discussing this really, because i have'nt looked into the subject carefully, to tell you the truth. But, i do know and trust the man that wrote the article, Dr. Zakir Naik. He's an Indian muslim. And has had many Q/A sessions with people of all religions, especially Hindus in India. And this question seems to rise up alot from the Hindus. This is his official site: www.irf.net/irf/drzakirnaik/index.htm (All this is off the topic of my reply btw.)

I don't agree with some of the points you raised (i'll put them in bold).
Point #2: Are you saying that a person who eats meat cannot keep his mind pure? If so, what proof do you have?
Point#4: Who said that vegetables were not natural foods? And that some humans cannot eat them?
Point#5: I don't necessarily disagree with point #5, but i'de like to see the proof you have thata person, when eating meat, should fully cook it, and that he should eat it with alot of vegetables. On the contrary, the japanese eat raw fish (sushi) as a rather daily diet (this does'nt contradict the fact that they do eat alot of vegetables or rice with their sushi).
Point#6: This point underlined, i disagree with totally. It has been proven scientifically that a humans digestive system is made to digest non-vegetarian food. Again, the next statement you made during point6 was the same one you made on point5. And i'de like to see some proof to that.

Thanks. Peace.

 

[Milind2469]

Thanks champion for the reply....I put my points based on various facts-figures-beliefs I collected over time..
Point #2: Are you saying that a person who eats meat cannot keep his mind pure? If so, what proof do you have?
This may be the influence of Buddhism and Jainism on Hinduism, but the Hindus eating meat always feel some guilt of killing animals for eating...with that guilt in mind...your mind may not be a blank slate to write the name of God on it..
Point#4: Who said that vegetables were not natural foods? And that some humans cannot eat them?
You are saying exactly opposite of what I said. i said vegetables are man's natural food.
Point#5: I don't necessarily disagree with point #5, but i'de like to see the proof you have thata person, when eating meat, should fully cook it, and that he should eat it with alot of vegetables. On the contrary, the japanese eat raw fish (sushi) as a rather daily diet (this does'nt contradict the fact that they do eat alot of vegetables or rice with their sushi).
There was a strong claim that human body, given it's anatomy (structure of teeth etc) can only properly digest vegetarian food. So i said that if we cook it (weaken it's internal structure) and eat with lots of veg items (Since meat is low in natural fibre) , you can digest it. Japanese diet seems to be an exception or the fish may be easy to digest than meat, pork etc...which no one can eat raw...can't imagine also..
Point#6: This point underlined, i disagree with totally. It has been proven scientifically that a humans digestive system is made to digest non-vegetarian food.
This is a medical fact which is not put forth by me but by scientists..I don't want to take the responsibility of the correctness of it...but going by the lenght of intestines (herbivoroug animals have long intestines the way we have) and set of teeth (our teeth are not made by God to kill animals and eat meat, they are like the herbivorous animals)

 

[AbuQuteiba]

Thanks champion for the reply....I put my points based on various facts-figures-beliefs I collected over time..
Point #2: Are you saying that a person who eats meat cannot keep his mind pure? If so, what proof do you have?
This may be the influence of Buddhism and Jainism on Hinduism, but the Hindus eating meat always feel some guilt of killing animals for eating...with that guilt in mind...your mind may not be a blank slate to write the name of God on it..
Point#4: Who said that vegetables were not natural foods? And that some humans cannot eat them?
You are saying exactly opposite of what I said. i said vegetables are man's natural food.
Point#5: I don't necessarily disagree with point #5, but i'de like to see the proof you have thata person, when eating meat, should fully cook it, and that he should eat it with alot of vegetables. On the contrary, the japanese eat raw fish (sushi) as a rather daily diet (this does'nt contradict the fact that they do eat alot of vegetables or rice with their sushi).
There was a strong claim that human body, given it's anatomy (structure of teeth etc) can only properly digest vegetarian food. So i said that if we cook it (weaken it's internal structure) and eat with lots of veg items (Since meat is low in natural fibre) , you can digest it. Japanese diet seems to be an exception or the fish may be easy to digest than meat, pork etc...which no one can eat raw...can't imagine also..
Point#6: This point underlined, i disagree with totally. It has been proven scientifically that a humans digestive system is made to digest non-vegetarian food.
This is a medical fact which is not put forth by me but by scientists..I don't want to take the responsibility of the correctness of it...but going by the lenght of intestines (herbivoroug animals have long intestines the way we have) and set of teeth (our teeth are not made by God to kill animals and eat meat, they are like the herbivorous animals)

Great reply. Thanks alot. Reply:-
1)I understand the Hindus killing animals might cause them guilt. But killing plants, after the latest discoveries that plants DO IN FACT have life and that they can feel pain, should cause the same guilt for Hindus. In Islam, we believe if God Almighty has permitted us to do so, then there should'nt be any reason for guilt. And after reading Dr.Naiks article, i think that Hindu's should feel the same, since their scriptures allow them to eat it as well.

2)Hehe, yeah, it does seem that way does'nt it. No, I meant to reply to your comment when you said that vegetables ARE natural foods, and that humans CAN eat them. I replied saying (meaning), i know that vegetables are natural foods, and that humans can eat them. WHO SAID THEY WERE'NT? (BTW, not important

)

3)Sorry, thats still hypothesis. You're not giving me any living facts, that humans should cook food, and eat them with alot of vegetables, in order to digest them properly. I agree, raw foods are kinda disgusting, but still, we need facts in order to say that we MUST cook it in order to digest it well.

4)Still, sorry, but i don't agree. Scientists have agreed upon the fact that humans neither have a carnivorous, or herbivorous digestive system or set of teeth. We in fact have an omnivorous digestive system, and set of teeth. Just as Dr.Naik mentioned in his article.

I would also like to say that i know that they're are scientists who have said that being a vegeterian is the correct way of life, but they're are also scientists which have disproved that. One of the strong arguments they have used, is that, there are no 1st class proteins in non-veg. foods. You can only find 2nd class proteins in Veg's.

Peace

 

[Hema]

How can plants cry? They do not have mouths. Of course everything vibrates at a certain frequency. Om can be heard in the ocean waves. Perhaps the sound emanating from the plants is a change in frequency when the atoms and molecules change within the plant causing the entire plant to adapt to its new situation. Our bodies are constantly changing also. Billions of cells are dying and billions are being reborn. Our bodies are not the same bodies we had ten years ago. Please Champion, Hinduism does not promote meat eating. There are two types of texts in Hinduism. Shruti and Smriti. Remember you quoted from Smriti. Smriti texts are commentaries adapted from the Shruti texts by people throughout time. Shruti texts are revealed knowledge from God to the Rishis. One of the pillars of Hinduism is the Bhagvad Gita. The Gita describes four main sins – MEAT EATING, addiction – alcohol or otherwise, gambling and illicit sex. The Gita states that a true devotee sees God equally in all living creatures. Hinduism also advocates karma which states that when we cause other creatures to suffer, we must also suffer, in this life or the next. Ahimsa or non-violence is our highest duty as Hindus. This does not mean that we should not retaliate in self defense. Shri Ram retaliated against Ravan when Mother Sita was kidnapped. Hinduism states that we are connected to God, we are Jeeva Atman or individual soul, God is Param Atman or Super Soul. God is therefore always within us. The body is the first temple of God. We cannot carry meat into a mandir similarly we should not bring meat into the body. Hindus must also offer their food to God before they eat. Lord Krishna says to offer unto him a fruit, a flower, a leaf, water or our undying devotion.